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d8h torque pressure

d8h torque pressure

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blackkw
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Just picked up my new dozer today 46a9709. I bought it knowing it has a problem, the torque converter pressure drops when it warms up a bit and locks you out of gear. the guy i got it frome bought it with the same problem. he put in a new pump cleaned the magnetic pick up ( it did have some vary fine shaveings on it) replaced the filters and changed the oil. iI have not checked pressures yet, So with that being said what do you guys think might be going on ????? THANK YOU ahead of time
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 8:40 AM
D349
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If it is the same in every gear forward and reverse you probably have too much internal leakage in the torque converter particularly now with a new pump, but its best to at least to put a gauge on the pump pressure it should be just over 300psi from memory and should be the sme in all 6 gears or you may have excessive leakage on a clutch pack

Kevin
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 10:08 AM
blackkw
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Reply to D349:
If it is the same in every gear forward and reverse you probably have too much internal leakage in the torque converter particularly now with a new pump, but its best to at least to put a gauge on the pump pressure it should be just over 300psi from memory and should be the sme in all 6 gears or you may have excessive leakage on a clutch pack

Kevin
Thanks, yes it seams to do it in all the gears as you mentioned. How mutch work woud be involved in pulling the torque converter? is it able to be resealed?
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 10:37 AM
bob
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You have an early D8H, does it have a trans pump on the back of the torque up near top? Later ones used the steering pump on the accesorie drive housing for trans and steering. Basically the trans pump puts up oil to fill the clutches, very little oil should be lost there, most goes on to the torque, and then the cooler and back to lube.
Pump pressure should be around 300 as said, speed cl same directional cl 55 lower. Then the TC inlet relief valve is set at 115 psi to protect the torque from blowing up with cold oil. You need to stall torque with cold oil to get this pressure, usually it only reads TC outlet plus 10. The tc outlet relief valve holds a charge in the converter. Any oil leakage into the case is returned to trans by the scavenge pump. Works okay untill warm is translated into "A leak some place" There are many tubes with orings that may be your problem. If your pump/speed clutch pressure gets too low the trans will be forced to neutral.
Later Bob
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 11:14 AM
blackkw
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Reply to bob:


You have an early D8H, does it have a trans pump on the back of the torque up near top? Later ones used the steering pump on the accesorie drive housing for trans and steering. Basically the trans pump puts up oil to fill the clutches, very little oil should be lost there, most goes on to the torque, and then the cooler and back to lube.
Pump pressure should be around 300 as said, speed cl same directional cl 55 lower. Then the TC inlet relief valve is set at 115 psi to protect the torque from blowing up with cold oil. You need to stall torque with cold oil to get this pressure, usually it only reads TC outlet plus 10. The tc outlet relief valve holds a charge in the converter. Any oil leakage into the case is returned to trans by the scavenge pump. Works okay untill warm is translated into "A leak some place" There are many tubes with orings that may be your problem. If your pump/speed clutch pressure gets too low the trans will be forced to neutral.
Later Bob
Im not shure if he changed the correct pump or not. The one that he changed is on the rear top left side of the torque houseing. that sounds like the trans pump you described.
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 11:28 AM
bob
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Reply to blackkw:
Im not shure if he changed the correct pump or not. The one that he changed is on the rear top left side of the torque houseing. that sounds like the trans pump you described.


You may be into some resealing of the tubes into the trans. Clean off the trans top and take off the cover, start it up and look for leaks around the oil tubes. The pressure that keeps you in gear is trans pressure, that's higher and before the torque pressure. If pump's new go for tube seals.
Later Bob
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:04 PM
blackkw
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Reply to bob:


You may be into some resealing of the tubes into the trans. Clean off the trans top and take off the cover, start it up and look for leaks around the oil tubes. The pressure that keeps you in gear is trans pressure, that's higher and before the torque pressure. If pump's new go for tube seals.
Later Bob
Thank you for the advice, thats just what i was looking for a bit of direction. wasent shure were to start after checking pressures 👍
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:57 PM
Wombat
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Reply to blackkw:
Thank you for the advice, thats just what i was looking for a bit of direction. wasent shure were to start after checking pressures 👍
I am not familliar with 235 tractors, however a good test for torque converter condition, after stopping remove bung in bottom and collect oil, should only get half to one gallon of oil, if you get two or three gallons or more, means it is has very high leakage and needs resealing etc. 270 tractors just had the one pump on top RH. If it started flicking out of gear, was often loss of suction, needed 'o' rings at the various fittings on suction side from bottom of transmission right up to the bottom of pump.
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 1:09 PM
blackkw
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Reply to Wombat:
I am not familliar with 235 tractors, however a good test for torque converter condition, after stopping remove bung in bottom and collect oil, should only get half to one gallon of oil, if you get two or three gallons or more, means it is has very high leakage and needs resealing etc. 270 tractors just had the one pump on top RH. If it started flicking out of gear, was often loss of suction, needed 'o' rings at the various fittings on suction side from bottom of transmission right up to the bottom of pump.
Im thinkin along them lines in terms of bad 'o' rings hopefualy thats all it is
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 1:15 PM
rjh-md
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Reply to blackkw:
Im thinkin along them lines in terms of bad 'o' rings hopefualy thats all it is
I don't now what the serial number the switch was ,but the earily d8h's had a fuel charged torque converter,s in them .see if there are any fuel lines going from the fuel system to the converter. If by chance this is so ,this type of converter would have carbon seals in it . I am not sure these seals are still avalible
If it is an oil charged converter ,like the previous fellow said go to the top of transmission ,and see if there is leakage at the control valve ,look at the bottom front left side at the oil supply tube comming in from the pump to the bottom of the valve, Its hard to see .There are small o rings sealing this tube ,and the earily tractors had yellow o rings sealing these tubes ,and there was a change over to a stronger black o ring .
I would reseal the entire valve assembly,and supply tubes ,and this valve has to be torqued as I remember at 22 lbs on the retaing 12 point bolts in a sequence ,starting in the center ,and working to the ends
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 11:35 PM
catsilver
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Reply to rjh-md:
I don't now what the serial number the switch was ,but the earily d8h's had a fuel charged torque converter,s in them .see if there are any fuel lines going from the fuel system to the converter. If by chance this is so ,this type of converter would have carbon seals in it . I am not sure these seals are still avalible
If it is an oil charged converter ,like the previous fellow said go to the top of transmission ,and see if there is leakage at the control valve ,look at the bottom front left side at the oil supply tube comming in from the pump to the bottom of the valve, Its hard to see .There are small o rings sealing this tube ,and the earily tractors had yellow o rings sealing these tubes ,and there was a change over to a stronger black o ring .
I would reseal the entire valve assembly,and supply tubes ,and this valve has to be torqued as I remember at 22 lbs on the retaing 12 point bolts in a sequence ,starting in the center ,and working to the ends
If the torque converter temp gauge is working and you have no overheat and you have oulet relief and lube valve pressure, forget problems with converter, your cause of low pressure will be due to leaks in the pump suction line or, more likely, seals on the control block. A full pressure check will give you more clues where to look.
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Sun, Dec 23, 2012 5:50 AM
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