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D8H Low Fuel Pressure

D8H Low Fuel Pressure

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AKLarry
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I've got a D8H s/n 46A31040 with low fuel pressure. I discovered this while trying to determine why I had low power at full engine speed.
Before I get too far along I should say this machine has had a lot of work done to it. Spring of 2015 we rebuilt the heads and installed a new turbo, Summer of 2015 it lost a cylinder, (no compression that is) so we shut her down and brought her in for a complete in frame rebuild. The only parts not replaced were the parts replaced in the spring. Due to the nature of the in frame the accessory drive housing was never removed and so over the course of the summer of 2016 it developed quite an oil leak where the drive housing seals on the vertical part of the block. Summer of 2017 we didn't have any dozer work so it sat. Summer of 2017 we fought the oil all summer and then won some winter work which included 120 acres of shear blading. Over the course of the job it caught on fire from the hot needles from the exhaust manifold falling down on the oil and pine needles in the belly pan. Luckily with enough snow to slow it down, and a 3/4" cordless impact i got the pan down and put it out. At that point I decided the leak had to be fixed. One of our mechanics got it in and fixed the leak, putting it back together claiming he didn't need the timing tool as he had marked the drive housing and was sure he got it re-timed correctly. Being none the wiser I allowed him to stick it out in the yard! Big Mistake!
The weather got right and we went to mob the machine out for the construction season and we couldn't get the darn thing to start! When we finally did, it sounded like it was going to blow up. I got the tool and checked the timing and it was out 10 degrees maybe? a couple teeth? But definitely out! Hauled it off and the summer was on. She'll start fine, but all summer it bugged me when I looked over at it, the thing never blew black smoke. Full blade, light pushes, nothing. Changed the fuel ratio diaphragm and the steel line from the manifold to it. No improvement!
Pulled it in the shop this winter and started tearing it apart trying to find out what is wrong. First I checked the timing again to make sure it hadn't slipped on that tapered shaft, spot on! Next I changed the fuel filters, then the fuel transfer pump (got the Cat classic pump) the pressure in the cab was worse with the new pump. I replaced the fuel line from the tank to the pre-filter, it was a hydraulic hose not the steel line, thought maybe the liner had de-laminated and was collapsing under suction. Next I got a real gauge and checked the fuel pressure in PSI. My manual for this serial range says I should have 32 psi +\- 7. HOW ABOUT 10 PSI. I've now tried everything I can think of and I cant get anything better than 13 PSi at high idle. I even tried just running it out of a jug sitting on the radiator to make sure I dont have a restriction in the bottom of the tank. Hoped maybe there was some contaminant blocking the fuel filter housing so I took that all apart and resealed it with new gaskets.
When I set the brakes and go full throttle in 3rd gear I'm getting 13 PSI boost from the turbo and the fuel pressure drops to 3 PSI. I tried putting the old pump back in and in the process discovered the new Classic pump was leaking both out the drive and out the seal at the service meter end. The pressure is still the same with the old pump. So I returned my classic pump and got it warrantied and now I'm waiting for the almost $1400 transfer pump to come in. So maybe my pump is bad and the new one was no better and that's my only problem?!
Just curious if I'm missing something? I don't have the book, RACK SETTING INFORMATION. The manual says that contains specs on the turbo, specifically i'm looking for boost pressure. I'm just curious once i get correct fuel pressure if low boost could be causing the fuel ratio valve from allowing the rack to make the full stroke? This could result in lack of full rpm and thus lack of full power?
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Sat, Jan 26, 2019 9:03 AM
Old Magnet
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My service manual for 46A10725-up states a fuel pressure by pass valve setting of 20 psi. Did you check operation of the bypass valve?
Boost pressures is 35.0 +/- 3 in. hg. @ full load and speed. w/o muffler
31.0 +/- 3 in. hg. w/muffler.
Static A/F ratio control setting is 0.020"
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Sat, Jan 26, 2019 1:30 PM
AKLarry
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Reply to Old Magnet:
My service manual for 46A10725-up states a fuel pressure by pass valve setting of 20 psi. Did you check operation of the bypass valve?
Boost pressures is 35.0 +/- 3 in. hg. @ full load and speed. w/o muffler
31.0 +/- 3 in. hg. w/muffler.
Static A/F ratio control setting is 0.020"
I checked the relief valve in the pump, everything looked fine, gave the spring a little tug to try and stretch it and obtain a little higher pressure. Those things don't really stretch! The rubber gasket on the plunger looked fine and it didn't appear there was any crap in there holding the plunger up off the seat.

Is there another relief valve elsewhere I'm missing?
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Sat, Jan 26, 2019 10:49 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to AKLarry:
I checked the relief valve in the pump, everything looked fine, gave the spring a little tug to try and stretch it and obtain a little higher pressure. Those things don't really stretch! The rubber gasket on the plunger looked fine and it didn't appear there was any crap in there holding the plunger up off the seat.

Is there another relief valve elsewhere I'm missing?
Just the one relief valve. Is the valve seat in good condition and seating tight?
I'd be looking for other restrictions in the fuel system, primary and secondary filter, fuel galleries, etc.
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Sat, Jan 26, 2019 11:17 PM
tctractors
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Just the one relief valve. Is the valve seat in good condition and seating tight?
I'd be looking for other restrictions in the fuel system, primary and secondary filter, fuel galleries, etc.
I would be thinking correctly? that this tractor has the compact injector pump fitted, with the low fuel pressure and lack of power I tend to go firstly to the little hand primer pump, that is the idiot proof 2 bolt job as this has a big effect on fuel pressure, it can be noted usually on trying to turn the Tractor each way with the engine dropping off power, I don't know if you have replaced this item but it is a simple thing to check. tctractors
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 1:42 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to tctractors:
I would be thinking correctly? that this tractor has the compact injector pump fitted, with the low fuel pressure and lack of power I tend to go firstly to the little hand primer pump, that is the idiot proof 2 bolt job as this has a big effect on fuel pressure, it can be noted usually on trying to turn the Tractor each way with the engine dropping off power, I don't know if you have replaced this item but it is a simple thing to check. tctractors
Checked later service manual an your 32+/- psi fuel pressure is correct and a must at full load.
Static rack setting is 0.080".
Try separate pressurizing of the fuel system and check for leaks.
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 3:14 AM
AKLarry
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Checked later service manual an your 32+/- psi fuel pressure is correct and a must at full load.
Static rack setting is 0.080".
Try separate pressurizing of the fuel system and check for leaks.
tctractors - I replaced the hand primer pump as the old one sounded like it was sucking air near the base once you stopped pumping. The new pump definitely moves he fuel but it never gets hard I can pump until I get a solid stream of fuel coming out of the bleeder valve, close it and pump another 15-20 pumps and it never gets hard. I wondered if maybe the hand primer has an internal pressure relief? I will say, if I run the hand pump while the engine is running the fuel pressure will jump to 25-30 psi but as soon as I stop pumping it's back down to 10-13 PSI.

Old Magnet - I took the entire filter housing down to its individual parts and blew air through every port hoping to dislodge something. NOTHING! I'm on my second set of secondary filters since i started trying to fix this. I tried running it out of a jerry can to eliminate anything in the bottom of the tank even though it inspects well visually.

Was thinking about that idea of trying to pressurize the fuel system up to the injection pump. I was thinking I could drill holes in some flat bar and blind off that 2 bolt flange going into the injection pump?
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 4:15 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to AKLarry:
tctractors - I replaced the hand primer pump as the old one sounded like it was sucking air near the base once you stopped pumping. The new pump definitely moves he fuel but it never gets hard I can pump until I get a solid stream of fuel coming out of the bleeder valve, close it and pump another 15-20 pumps and it never gets hard. I wondered if maybe the hand primer has an internal pressure relief? I will say, if I run the hand pump while the engine is running the fuel pressure will jump to 25-30 psi but as soon as I stop pumping it's back down to 10-13 PSI.

Old Magnet - I took the entire filter housing down to its individual parts and blew air through every port hoping to dislodge something. NOTHING! I'm on my second set of secondary filters since i started trying to fix this. I tried running it out of a jerry can to eliminate anything in the bottom of the tank even though it inspects well visually.

Was thinking about that idea of trying to pressurize the fuel system up to the injection pump. I was thinking I could drill holes in some flat bar and blind off that 2 bolt flange going into the injection pump?
I'd try pressurizing the fuel system further upstream, like through the supply line, through the primary filter, the transfer pump, secondary filter and on to the injection pump. Flow will be slow through the transfer pump but will flow past clearances to beyond.
Could also do the same check with vacuum by blanking of sections of the fuel system.
There is a check valve in the priming pump that could be a leaker although your new replacement should have caught that.
There is no relief valve in the priming pump, just the flow check valve, piston seal and ring.

I'm not clear on whether your having trouble making rpm's (reason to suspect governor?) Seems you are able to make rpm's regardless of fuel pressure.

One more check.....Air line to the fuel ratio controller!
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 4:41 AM
AKLarry
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Reply to AKLarry:
tctractors - I replaced the hand primer pump as the old one sounded like it was sucking air near the base once you stopped pumping. The new pump definitely moves he fuel but it never gets hard I can pump until I get a solid stream of fuel coming out of the bleeder valve, close it and pump another 15-20 pumps and it never gets hard. I wondered if maybe the hand primer has an internal pressure relief? I will say, if I run the hand pump while the engine is running the fuel pressure will jump to 25-30 psi but as soon as I stop pumping it's back down to 10-13 PSI.

Old Magnet - I took the entire filter housing down to its individual parts and blew air through every port hoping to dislodge something. NOTHING! I'm on my second set of secondary filters since i started trying to fix this. I tried running it out of a jerry can to eliminate anything in the bottom of the tank even though it inspects well visually.

Was thinking about that idea of trying to pressurize the fuel system up to the injection pump. I was thinking I could drill holes in some flat bar and blind off that 2 bolt flange going into the injection pump?
Thanks for the help guys, Just finished putting in the new transfer pump. 1.) the primer got hard after like 5 pumps which it hasn't been doing! Figured I was onto something! 2.) Started the engine and the fuel pressure shot right up to 30 PSI and it's actually making 45 PSI at High Idle. So I guess i wont buy any more Cat classic fuel pumps.
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 5:12 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to AKLarry:
Thanks for the help guys, Just finished putting in the new transfer pump. 1.) the primer got hard after like 5 pumps which it hasn't been doing! Figured I was onto something! 2.) Started the engine and the fuel pressure shot right up to 30 PSI and it's actually making 45 PSI at High Idle. So I guess i wont buy any more Cat classic fuel pumps.
I never use classic parts if I can help it! Cat should be ashamed to sell such cheap quality parts! the old bs " oh we warranty it and will replace it" why the aggravation of installing and then removing the part again. What happened to "Only Caterpillar parts give Caterpillar performance"?
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 5:21 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Rome K/G:
I never use classic parts if I can help it! Cat should be ashamed to sell such cheap quality parts! the old bs " oh we warranty it and will replace it" why the aggravation of installing and then removing the part again. What happened to "Only Caterpillar parts give Caterpillar performance"?
OK, that solves the problem. Junk after market parts from Caterpillar.

I've found it useful to install a ball valve shut off just ahead of the transfer pump. Without this valve (shut off) priming pump pressure leaks back though the transfer pump to where it never makes pressure. Also kind if indicates the condition of transfer pump clearances.
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Sun, Jan 27, 2019 5:29 AM
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