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D8 14A oil in radiator

D8 14A oil in radiator

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Roydsracing
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Hi Guys...
Been a while, hope you are all well. My D8 #1 14A3238 had the water freeze in the engine this last winter. Long story but the short of it is my son decided the do a grow on our family property and filled the radiator on my old Cat and it froze. He then got it started and ran it down the road until it stopped. He died under strange circumstances in a cabin fire so I can't even find out what he did. I found the cat with a pan full of water and oil in the radiator. I pulled the pan and all looked good. I pulled the oil cooler and found three tubes where broken so I plugged them and put it all together. Got it started and it still seemed to pump oil into the radiator. I removed the cooler again just know tested it at 100 psig.... no leaks. Is there anywhere else in the engine where pressurized oil can get into the water? I left the radiator full for a week before putting oil in it and no water leaked into the pan. I'm pretty sure the head gasket has no oil passages since the feed to the rocker shaft is a run of tubing from the top of the block. Do the two tubes going through the block pass through any water passages? I need to get this machine going to remediate the enviromental damage they did before our family gets fined for diverting a stream, building a pond and cutting about 300 trees. Used to be on the fence about the pot growing but now they can all go pound sand!
Thanks
LeRoy
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Tue, Jul 15, 2014 11:42 AM
Old Magnet
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Only a couple of candidate spots that I can think of where oil is close to water......the ferrules between the head and block where the rocker arm oil feed tubes connect and maybe the water pump which has oil fed to it's drive gears. Normally protected by seal and weep hole but if the water pump housing itself froze and cracked it could become a leak source and probably would be sensitive to operating temperature as apposed to static condition.

Not likely any of the small diameter oil feed tubes would break so a larger size housing like the oil cooler or water pump housing would be more likely to generate enough force to crack something due to freezing.
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Tue, Jul 15, 2014 10:46 PM
Roydsracing
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Only a couple of candidate spots that I can think of where oil is close to water......the ferrules between the head and block where the rocker arm oil feed tubes connect and maybe the water pump which has oil fed to it's drive gears. Normally protected by seal and weep hole but if the water pump housing itself froze and cracked it could become a leak source and probably would be sensitive to operating temperature as apposed to static condition.

Not likely any of the small diameter oil feed tubes would break so a larger size housing like the oil cooler or water pump housing would be more likely to generate enough force to crack something due to freezing.
Thanks for the reply OM. I was thinking the oil is fed to the rockers from a piece of copper tubing coming from the top of the block. I'll have to check that. I think the reason it didn't split the outer housing of the cooler is it may not have been completly full of water. It had a leak at the water pump seal so maybe the cooler was partialy full and just broke the bottom 3 tubes. I'll be going back out on Thurs to ivestigate further.
LeRoy
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Wed, Jul 16, 2014 1:50 AM
tctractors
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Reply to Roydsracing:
Thanks for the reply OM. I was thinking the oil is fed to the rockers from a piece of copper tubing coming from the top of the block. I'll have to check that. I think the reason it didn't split the outer housing of the cooler is it may not have been completly full of water. It had a leak at the water pump seal so maybe the cooler was partialy full and just broke the bottom 3 tubes. I'll be going back out on Thurs to ivestigate further.
LeRoy
The oil feed pipes to the valve gear I doubt would be your problem (know) on the back head the line that feeds the valve gear also feeds the live drive gears on the D342, its most probably a cooler issue, the oil tubes are not conected in any way to water that feed the valve gear.
tctractors

p.s. try parafin in the cooler, is this tractor fitted with the wet back case?
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Wed, Jul 16, 2014 2:11 AM
Roydsracing
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Reply to tctractors:
The oil feed pipes to the valve gear I doubt would be your problem (know) on the back head the line that feeds the valve gear also feeds the live drive gears on the D342, its most probably a cooler issue, the oil tubes are not conected in any way to water that feed the valve gear.
tctractors

p.s. try parafin in the cooler, is this tractor fitted with the wet back case?
Thanks TC
I was just looking at the parts manual and it appears the oil line to the rockers does come off the top of the block. I did pressure test the oil cooler last night to 100 psig. I had plugged three tubes last week and thought maybe it had more leaks. I'm thinking now maybe I was seeing oil left over from when my son ran it out of oil..8 gallons of oil into the radiator and the pan full of water.
Wet back case? you talkin wet deck? As in oil in the steering cases and hydraulic brakes? This one is a dry deck, the other two are wet decks with one being a torque converter machine. The two direct drive machines are 441 apart s/n with the wet deck being the 19th one built and was never fitted with the brake handle between the steering clutch handles. never seen another without the "chicken brake"
LeRoy
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Wed, Jul 16, 2014 6:46 AM
tctractors
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Reply to Roydsracing:
Thanks TC
I was just looking at the parts manual and it appears the oil line to the rockers does come off the top of the block. I did pressure test the oil cooler last night to 100 psig. I had plugged three tubes last week and thought maybe it had more leaks. I'm thinking now maybe I was seeing oil left over from when my son ran it out of oil..8 gallons of oil into the radiator and the pan full of water.
Wet back case? you talkin wet deck? As in oil in the steering cases and hydraulic brakes? This one is a dry deck, the other two are wet decks with one being a torque converter machine. The two direct drive machines are 441 apart s/n with the wet deck being the 19th one built and was never fitted with the brake handle between the steering clutch handles. never seen another without the "chicken brake"
LeRoy
The oil feed to the valve gear comes off a union in the top of the block, but below the union its just a steel pipe feeding up to this union, wet back case is U.K. verbs for wet deck.
tctractors
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Wed, Jul 16, 2014 12:58 PM
Roydsracing
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Reply to tctractors:
The oil feed to the valve gear comes off a union in the top of the block, but below the union its just a steel pipe feeding up to this union, wet back case is U.K. verbs for wet deck.
tctractors
I did find the oil piping in the parts book and it shows the feed up to the top of the block. Got the water welded up and I'm going to head out Sat to put it together and give it a go. This will bi the 5th life for this machine! I like this machine better than the wet deck machine I have close to the house. I'll update the outcome.
Thanks
LeRoy
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Thu, Jul 17, 2014 9:52 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Roydsracing:
I did find the oil piping in the parts book and it shows the feed up to the top of the block. Got the water welded up and I'm going to head out Sat to put it together and give it a go. This will bi the 5th life for this machine! I like this machine better than the wet deck machine I have close to the house. I'll update the outcome.
Thanks
LeRoy
Got the water????? welded up??? Is that water pump?
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Thu, Jul 17, 2014 12:39 PM
Roydsracing
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Got the water????? welded up??? Is that water pump?
Ah.. I think I should have proof read my reply. Ya that was the water pump. It had cracked about 3/4 the way around from freezing. I don't put anti-freeze in this machine since I have had the coolant get into the water too many times. I've found that plain water in oil gives a chance of not wiping the bearings. It takes very little anti-freeze to displace the oil in the bearings and then you have junk faster than you can get it shut down. And it very rarely freezes here!
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Fri, Jul 18, 2014 6:41 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Roydsracing:
Ah.. I think I should have proof read my reply. Ya that was the water pump. It had cracked about 3/4 the way around from freezing. I don't put anti-freeze in this machine since I have had the coolant get into the water too many times. I've found that plain water in oil gives a chance of not wiping the bearings. It takes very little anti-freeze to displace the oil in the bearings and then you have junk faster than you can get it shut down. And it very rarely freezes here!
You should at least add some soluble oil to the cooling system otherwise corrosion will be rampant.
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Fri, Jul 18, 2014 6:50 AM
Andrew
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Reply to Old Magnet:
You should at least add some soluble oil to the cooling system otherwise corrosion will be rampant.
G,Day All.
Good
to see another user of soluble oil as a cost effective anti corrosion coolant for vintage tractors.
Regards Andrew K.
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Fri, Jul 18, 2014 4:02 PM
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