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D7-3T Starting problem

D7-3T Starting problem

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schandler
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Hi everyone.
I have a D7-3T serial number 23593 and I am having an issue with starting the diesel engine. I have had the dozer for about 20 years and it has always started without much effort. Lately it takes a considerable amount of time to run the starting engine to warm up the diesel enough to fire. I have good fuel pressure,in the green area on the guage and the starting engine transmission is in high and turns over the diesel as it should. I checked the rack and it is free and operational. When it finally begins to fire with out the aid of the starting engine it only fires on a couple cylinders and as it gradually warms up further the other cylinders fire off. If I pour the throttle to it while it is firing on a couple cylinders it dogs down and a ton of black smoke comes out.
Im thinking it may be a head gasket but though I'd throw this out to everyone on the forum for ideas. Once it warms up enough it runs great with plenty of power. It does not get hot or there does not appear to be a loss of coolant in the system.
Thanks for your help
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 1:31 AM
zip
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I would say the head gaskets are ok, bleed the inj pump and lines, check the valve adj, and make sure the decompression linkage works as should, and im sure you will get more info on here.
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 1:55 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to zip:
I would say the head gaskets are ok, bleed the inj pump and lines, check the valve adj, and make sure the decompression linkage works as should, and im sure you will get more info on here.
If all you say is working right then most likely it is a tuckered out engine. Just not making the compression pressures needed to get ignition without long cranking periods.
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 2:26 AM
budtoh3zo
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Reply to Old Magnet:
If all you say is working right then most likely it is a tuckered out engine. Just not making the compression pressures needed to get ignition without long cranking periods.
Could it be the injectors getting weak? Mine is doing the same thing and thats what i thought. but its been like that since i got the cat 6 months ago
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 6:39 AM
ccjersey
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Look at the blowby coming out of the crankcase breather. Probably is increased over what it was a few years ago. Just another sign of a well worn engine or sticking rings.

Could also have the injectors checked so you know they are in good shape and time the injection pump lifters to account for the wear that inevitably occurs which delays the injection timing.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 7:06 AM
ronm
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Reply to ccjersey:
Look at the blowby coming out of the crankcase breather. Probably is increased over what it was a few years ago. Just another sign of a well worn engine or sticking rings.

Could also have the injectors checked so you know they are in good shape and time the injection pump lifters to account for the wear that inevitably occurs which delays the injection timing.
Check the connections from the air cleaner to the engine, look inside the manifold for dirt...if the starting behavior has changed fairly quickly, these are classic symptoms of a dusted engine.
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 7:27 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ronm:
Check the connections from the air cleaner to the engine, look inside the manifold for dirt...if the starting behavior has changed fairly quickly, these are classic symptoms of a dusted engine.
Those are some good check list items.

If it runs good once you get it going I wouldn't suspect the injectors. Usually if it's a compression related issue the starting effort becomes more noticable with time....and change in ambient temperature.

These engines are huge heat sinks and unless you can make ignition temperature (requires about 750 deg. F. cylinder temp) they will not start at all. You need good compression and heat transfer (no carboned up heat exchanger) from the pony to get er going.
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 7:29 AM
Jack
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Those are some good check list items.

If it runs good once you get it going I wouldn't suspect the injectors. Usually if it's a compression related issue the starting effort becomes more noticable with time....and change in ambient temperature.

These engines are huge heat sinks and unless you can make ignition temperature (requires about 750 deg. F. cylinder temp) they will not start at all. You need good compression and heat transfer (no carboned up heat exchanger) from the pony to get er going.
When mine was like that, it was a porous cast head seeping a tiny, tiny bit of water into the cylinders which corroded the sleeves and caused compression loss. I hope your problem is a lot simpler than that.
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Mon, Oct 11, 2010 11:15 AM
schandler
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Reply to Jack:
When mine was like that, it was a porous cast head seeping a tiny, tiny bit of water into the cylinders which corroded the sleeves and caused compression loss. I hope your problem is a lot simpler than that.
Thanks to all of you for your ideas.
I hope that it is only a problem with the fuel supply side and I will check the injectors. If not than I've got some major work to do.
Here is a couple shots from last weekend after I got it going
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Tue, Oct 12, 2010 1:15 AM
Dick Tucker_archive
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Reply to schandler:
Thanks to all of you for your ideas.
I hope that it is only a problem with the fuel supply side and I will check the injectors. If not than I've got some major work to do.
Here is a couple shots from last weekend after I got it going
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I have a D7-17A that had a similar problem last year. When the main engine was started with the starting engine the main engine would fire on three cylinders and the fourth cylinder would start firing about 30 seconds after the engine was running. This problem had been going on for several years and I though nothing of it until one day I was running the dozer and it started to knock like a rod was coming loose. It turned out to be a problem with one of the individual cylinder diesel injection pumps. After replacing the defective injection pump the main engine now fires right up on all four cylinders without missing. This might be your same problem. Get a new cylinder injection pump and install on one of the cylinders that is missing or swap places with one of the pumps on a good cylinder with one that you know is missing and see if the missing problem changes cylinders.
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Wed, Oct 13, 2010 12:54 AM
schandler
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Reply to Dick Tucker_archive:
I have a D7-17A that had a similar problem last year. When the main engine was started with the starting engine the main engine would fire on three cylinders and the fourth cylinder would start firing about 30 seconds after the engine was running. This problem had been going on for several years and I though nothing of it until one day I was running the dozer and it started to knock like a rod was coming loose. It turned out to be a problem with one of the individual cylinder diesel injection pumps. After replacing the defective injection pump the main engine now fires right up on all four cylinders without missing. This might be your same problem. Get a new cylinder injection pump and install on one of the cylinders that is missing or swap places with one of the pumps on a good cylinder with one that you know is missing and see if the missing problem changes cylinders.
I'm sure this is a stupid question and I'm not a diesel mechanic but here it goes:
I was playing around with bleeding the system starting at the fuel filter upper and lower housing and got a steady stream of fuel. Then I proceeded to open the fuel injection pump vents one by one and got a stream of fuel out of each individually , then I got the bright idea of trying to see what happens if I open all the injection pump vents at one time and nothing came out. Is this normal or could this be my problem?
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Wed, Oct 13, 2010 2:22 AM
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