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D6c Dead axle taper loose

D6c Dead axle taper loose

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D6c10K
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A couple of years ago I had the final drive seal go out on my D6c. I had it replaced, and at the time the dead axle was found to be bent so it was replaced but it was still a little marginal on the amount it took to press it in.

I checked it this spring and found that the axle had turned some. I marked the position of the outer components (support, holder assy, and nut) and have been checking it frequently for movement. It hasn't moved until I checked yesterday and the holder & nut have rotated a little.
When I had it worked on last time they said it may or may not hold, which it why I've been watching it, and if starts moving the fix is probably to have Cat bore the housing and put in a tapered bushing.

Anyone had this done recently?....Can they usually do it on site or is that done in their shop only?
I was told it would probably be around $2500
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Sun, Sep 10, 2017 10:57 PM
razz
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I had it done on a D814a Ziegler mason city someone from des monies came up don't remember the cost. a few years ago.
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Mon, Sep 11, 2017 1:28 AM
Glum
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Reply to razz:
I had it done on a D814a Ziegler mason city someone from des monies came up don't remember the cost. a few years ago.
Here is a thread onthe one I did on a D4 that may be of some help.

http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?25802-Problems&p=170979&highlight=#post170979
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Mon, Sep 11, 2017 11:14 PM
D6c10K
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Reply to Glum:
Here is a thread onthe one I did on a D4 that may be of some help.

http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?25802-Problems&p=170979&highlight=#post170979
Thanks Glum,
I called Cat and spoke with a service manager. He said it had been quite a while since they've bushed a dead axle. He's going to look into it and see what it would cost to have it done.
Sounded like he'd have to try and find someone old enough to remember how to do it.

They may be able to do it on site but he thought it would cost quite a bit more.....send out a service truck to disassemble, send out the machine shop truck to bore & bush it, then send the service truck out again to put it all back together.

I have heard of guys shimming the taper on the dead axle to tighten them up but I'm not sure it that's really a good fix or not.
Looks to me like Cat could have just made up a taper reamer tool on a guide shaft to clean up the taper and make it just a little bigger....then sell an oversize dead axle to fit. Would have been a lot less work. Not enough call for it now, but back in the day it would surely have been worth it.

Too bad they didn't design the axle with a shoulder and bolts like the bigger tractors....it's kind of a weak point in the smaller machines.
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Tue, Sep 12, 2017 5:59 AM
Glum
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Reply to D6c10K:
Thanks Glum,
I called Cat and spoke with a service manager. He said it had been quite a while since they've bushed a dead axle. He's going to look into it and see what it would cost to have it done.
Sounded like he'd have to try and find someone old enough to remember how to do it.

They may be able to do it on site but he thought it would cost quite a bit more.....send out a service truck to disassemble, send out the machine shop truck to bore & bush it, then send the service truck out again to put it all back together.

I have heard of guys shimming the taper on the dead axle to tighten them up but I'm not sure it that's really a good fix or not.
Looks to me like Cat could have just made up a taper reamer tool on a guide shaft to clean up the taper and make it just a little bigger....then sell an oversize dead axle to fit. Would have been a lot less work. Not enough call for it now, but back in the day it would surely have been worth it.

Too bad they didn't design the axle with a shoulder and bolts like the bigger tractors....it's kind of a weak point in the smaller machines.
Agreed, a straight shaft with a keyway and shoulder would have been the way to go in my opinion.
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Tue, Sep 12, 2017 10:46 AM
D6c10K
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Reply to Glum:
Agreed, a straight shaft with a keyway and shoulder would have been the way to go in my opinion.
Well, I heard back from Cat....their price for boring out the dead axle taper and installing a bushing (along with disassembly & reassembly) was $8500. That's pretty much a non-starter from my point of view. They said just to make the bushing in their shop would be most of $2500. Ouch. Not faulting them....they have to make money, but can't justify putting that much into a 40+ year old machine.

My options are, run it as is and watch that it doesn't get worse, trade it off, or fix it by other means.

Talked with a couple of independent mechanics and got some ideas. The guy that worked on it before thought the axle was a little too loose to tighten it up by shimming (he had tried that last time).
I have a line on someone with portable line boring equipment that could bore out the case. I think I can get the specs for the bore & bushing from Cat and I have a friend with a CNC lathe that could make a bushing for me. (could do it myself but his equipment would do a much nicer job)

So, would this make sense for a plan?
*Jack up the tractor in my shop, pull the track & track frame
* Pull the outer hubs/bearings from the final drive.
* Pull the sprocket, case & bull gear as a unit to avoid pressing off sprocket
* Hire mechanic to pull the axle (if it doesn't just fall out)
* Hire line boring of the bushing hole
* Make bushing or hire it made
* Hire mechanic to push in axle and help reassemble final drive.
* Install track frame and track

Kind of depends on if I can line up someone with a line boring machine and how the costs will add up.
Did I miss anything?
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Thu, Sep 14, 2017 6:45 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to D6c10K:
Well, I heard back from Cat....their price for boring out the dead axle taper and installing a bushing (along with disassembly & reassembly) was $8500. That's pretty much a non-starter from my point of view. They said just to make the bushing in their shop would be most of $2500. Ouch. Not faulting them....they have to make money, but can't justify putting that much into a 40+ year old machine.

My options are, run it as is and watch that it doesn't get worse, trade it off, or fix it by other means.

Talked with a couple of independent mechanics and got some ideas. The guy that worked on it before thought the axle was a little too loose to tighten it up by shimming (he had tried that last time).
I have a line on someone with portable line boring equipment that could bore out the case. I think I can get the specs for the bore & bushing from Cat and I have a friend with a CNC lathe that could make a bushing for me. (could do it myself but his equipment would do a much nicer job)

So, would this make sense for a plan?
*Jack up the tractor in my shop, pull the track & track frame
* Pull the outer hubs/bearings from the final drive.
* Pull the sprocket, case & bull gear as a unit to avoid pressing off sprocket
* Hire mechanic to pull the axle (if it doesn't just fall out)
* Hire line boring of the bushing hole
* Make bushing or hire it made
* Hire mechanic to push in axle and help reassemble final drive.
* Install track frame and track

Kind of depends on if I can line up someone with a line boring machine and how the costs will add up.
Did I miss anything?
Are you out of range for the shaft protrusion specifications, eg. no room left to further press the shaft and reset the retaining nut while the press load is still on the shaft. I'm not big on cobb jobs but I'd be looking at a way to prevent the shaft from further rotation and I'm thinking there may be a way to lock tab the inside adjusting nut. I'm thinking weld something up as a limiting device without welding to the housing. I haven't done this or seen it done so who knows. Dowel pinning the shaft also comes to mind but then your messing with the housing. If it's at the point to where the shaft is flopping around then nothing is going to hold.
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Sun, Sep 17, 2017 12:40 AM
D6c10K
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Are you out of range for the shaft protrusion specifications, eg. no room left to further press the shaft and reset the retaining nut while the press load is still on the shaft. I'm not big on cobb jobs but I'd be looking at a way to prevent the shaft from further rotation and I'm thinking there may be a way to lock tab the inside adjusting nut. I'm thinking weld something up as a limiting device without welding to the housing. I haven't done this or seen it done so who knows. Dowel pinning the shaft also comes to mind but then your messing with the housing. If it's at the point to where the shaft is flopping around then nothing is going to hold.
It must have been pretty far out of spec the last time it was worked on if he thought it wasn't a candidate for shimming the taper. I'm guessing the taper was pretty egg shaped.
What he did was use a very high strength epoxy type material ( http://www.belzona.com/en/products/purpose/metal-repair.aspx ) to take up the bore wear....and then press in some more and tighten the nut after it cured.
He also put a couple of welds on the inside end of the axle to hold against turning. Wasn't enough apparently.
In hindsight I probably should have had it bushed at the time.

Been trying to think of a solution to prevent it from turning too. Short of welding the crap out of it, which I'd hate to do, I haven't come up with anything.
Still waiting to get in touch with the guy that is supposed to have some boring equipment.
Portable welding & boring setup could do a good job of the repair without bushing if it weren't a tapered hole. Haven't ever seen portable tools that could weld or bore a taper.
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Mon, Sep 18, 2017 12:00 AM
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