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D69U (fuel problems?)

D69U (fuel problems?)

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MetalmanD69U
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Hi guys, looking for some advice here; D69U #9023

This is the one I have converted to direct electric start (using the Delco MT39 in place of the pony clutch) Pics will eventually be taken, and shared here.

Brief history: this Cat has not run since 2013, back then it always started okay with the pony, and ran fine.
Last time I tried to start it, in 2015, the pony ran for a while, then locked up, so I left it until earlier this year.

The electric conversion worked out really well, the MT39 spins the D318 over quite easily.

I have not had time to work on it again until today, taking advantage of a warm spell we are enjoying right now,

My problem is that I can't get the diesel to start. I figure it is not getting fuel, as it will fire on ether, but only as long as you keep spraying it.
The tank dipstick shows 30 gallons.
I did change the fuel filters a while back, before trying to start the engine.

Preheated the former pony exhaust pipe through the diesel intake, for about an hour, with a propane torch
Looked under the inspection cover on the injector pump all six pumps (I think) move up and down when the engine is cranked.
I 'cracked' the nuts on the lines on top of the injector pump, fuel trickles out of all six when the engine is cranked.

She does make white smoke while trying to start, but maybe that's the ether?

Do I maybe have air in the system after changing the filters?

Should I crack the nuts at the injectors and crank until fuel comes out?
Might have to make a tool for that, they look hard to get at.

Thanks in advance,
Toby
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 1:32 PM
ccjersey
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You should get spurts of fuel out of the injector lines instead of trickles. I would make sure the rack is moving back and forth freely. Your governor could be stuck at fuel shutoff (rack locked to far right as you look into the IP housing) when you pull the throttle open the rack should move to the left at near full fuel position since there is no opposing force from the governor flyweights.

If the rack is moving and you still get only trickles then I would start at the tank and assure full fuel flow at each point in fuel delivery. It is not necessary to bleed the lines at the injectors, at the top of the pumps or using the bleeder screws behind each injector line is just as good.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 7:43 PM
bursitis
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Reply to ccjersey:
You should get spurts of fuel out of the injector lines instead of trickles. I would make sure the rack is moving back and forth freely. Your governor could be stuck at fuel shutoff (rack locked to far right as you look into the IP housing) when you pull the throttle open the rack should move to the left at near full fuel position since there is no opposing force from the governor flyweights.

If the rack is moving and you still get only trickles then I would start at the tank and assure full fuel flow at each point in fuel delivery. It is not necessary to bleed the lines at the injectors, at the top of the pumps or using the bleeder screws behind each injector line is just as good.
i agree with the above post. the only thing i would suggest is to install a thermostart in the intake manifold to help with cold starts and forget the either. they are cheap and easy to install. example-----https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Thermostart-Intake-Manifold-C5ne9a436a/dp/B00D6OGN3U
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 8:48 PM
MetalmanD69U
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Reply to bursitis:
i agree with the above post. the only thing i would suggest is to install a thermostart in the intake manifold to help with cold starts and forget the either. they are cheap and easy to install. example-----https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Thermostart-Intake-Manifold-C5ne9a436a/dp/B00D6OGN3U
ccjersey: thanks, your reply was detailed and concise. Very informative.

bursitis: Thermostart; thanks, good idea (why didn't I think of that?!!)
Where in the intake manifold would you suggest is a good location?
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 11:00 PM
Ray54
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Reply to MetalmanD69U:
ccjersey: thanks, your reply was detailed and concise. Very informative.

bursitis: Thermostart; thanks, good idea (why didn't I think of that?!!)
Where in the intake manifold would you suggest is a good location?
Generally just opening the injector line lets the air out after changing filters. But several times I have had one that just didn't start even after pressurizing the fuel tank. Opening the bleeders on the back side of the pump seemed to do the trick.
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 11:15 PM
TOGNOT
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Reply to Ray54:
Generally just opening the injector line lets the air out after changing filters. But several times I have had one that just didn't start even after pressurizing the fuel tank. Opening the bleeders on the back side of the pump seemed to do the trick.
Metalman, I look forward to your starter pics on your installation.

I have had good luck with a small open end wrench on the bleeders behind the injector pumps, no special tool needed.

Also, what are you temperatures there now? My D2 ( electric start conversion) will literally start in 1 second with no ether and air temps above 70. Below that about a 1/2 second shot gets it going. ( but, it's never below 40 here)

I think you are looking for black smoke to know you are nearing- or getting- diesel combustion.
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 11:23 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to TOGNOT:
Metalman, I look forward to your starter pics on your installation.

I have had good luck with a small open end wrench on the bleeders behind the injector pumps, no special tool needed.

Also, what are you temperatures there now? My D2 ( electric start conversion) will literally start in 1 second with no ether and air temps above 70. Below that about a 1/2 second shot gets it going. ( but, it's never below 40 here)

I think you are looking for black smoke to know you are nearing- or getting- diesel combustion.
Why is it all these hard/no start issues want to ignore fuel transfer pump pressures????
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Mon, Nov 27, 2017 11:50 PM
catsilver
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Why is it all these hard/no start issues want to ignore fuel transfer pump pressures????
What pressure will you get at cranking speed OM? if fuel dribbles out of the injector lines when cranking, there will be some pressure to start.
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Tue, Nov 28, 2017 1:12 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to catsilver:
What pressure will you get at cranking speed OM? if fuel dribbles out of the injector lines when cranking, there will be some pressure to start.
If that were the case you wouldn't need a transfer pump. I've found that anything much less than about 5 psi leads to starting issues.
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Tue, Nov 28, 2017 1:17 AM
bursitis
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Reply to MetalmanD69U:
ccjersey: thanks, your reply was detailed and concise. Very informative.

bursitis: Thermostart; thanks, good idea (why didn't I think of that?!!)
Where in the intake manifold would you suggest is a good location?
[quote="MetalmanD69U"]ccjersey: thanks, your reply was detailed and concise. Very informative.

bursitis: Thermostart; thanks, good idea (why didn't I think of that?!!)
Where in the intake manifold would you suggest is a good location?[/quote]

I would first look for a plug i could remove. i would also try to get it above the manifold where it splits up to the individual cylinders.
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Tue, Nov 28, 2017 1:55 AM
MetalmanD69U
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Reply to bursitis:
[quote="MetalmanD69U"]ccjersey: thanks, your reply was detailed and concise. Very informative.

bursitis: Thermostart; thanks, good idea (why didn't I think of that?!!)
Where in the intake manifold would you suggest is a good location?[/quote]

I would first look for a plug i could remove. i would also try to get it above the manifold where it splits up to the individual cylinders.
Ray54; bleeders, thanks, I'll look for them.
TOGNOT; pics, one day, promise! temps here warmed up to high 30's-low 40's. Black smoke, check.
Old Magnet; I am perhaps guilty of assuming transfer pump is okay because it worked fine last time over 4 years ago. Also fuel pressure gauge is non-existent on all 3 '9U's here on our claim.
But this thread has me thinking I should buy one and install it.
bursitis; makes sense, to utilize an existing threaded opening, otherwise, center it at the top of the manifold, I guess.

Thanks all.
Toby
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Tue, Nov 28, 2017 3:04 AM
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