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D4400 Head Flatness spec

D4400 Head Flatness spec

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RobC
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Can't find any spec on head flatness but remember reading 0.004" per something. Anyone know?
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Thu, Sep 13, 2018 10:05 PM
hfdzl
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I usually use a precision straight edge and .001 feeler gauge. I know this is good and flat.
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 2:11 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to hfdzl:
I usually use a precision straight edge and .001 feeler gauge. I know this is good and flat.
No daylight under a straight edge works for me.
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 9:29 AM
RobC
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Reply to Old Magnet:
No daylight under a straight edge works for me.
Well mine appears to have a bit of a hump in it. Sounds like I better just have it flattened. Doing everything else. Thanks.
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 12:59 PM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to RobC:
Well mine appears to have a bit of a hump in it. Sounds like I better just have it flattened. Doing everything else. Thanks.
Do your pre-combustion chambers sit proud of the head surface, because machining the head will potentially remove the tips of those precoms which will then potentially affect the combustion chamber pressure at TDC, Cat have fairly specific specs for valve head height in the later D4400 heads with non recessed valve heads, because that affects compression, the early RD4 D4400 engine has recessed valve heads from what I have seen with my tractors and I suspect the pistons for those early engines were possibly a slightly higher crown or top ring land.

Perhaps one of our inhouse experts like Eddie Bedwell or Old Magnet can chime in with an opinion on if there is a possible issue with machining the pre-com tips off, I have a guy here in Australia trying to rebuild a D4400 engine that the Machine Shop shaved the pre-com tips off while machining the head.
Mike
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 5:31 PM
ccjersey
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Mike, I have never considered having the head resurfaced without removing the PC chambers first. I can see that eventually if carried to extremes, the chamber tips might hit the piston, but every piston I have seen has a well under the chamber so I think that is unlikely.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 6:57 PM
neil
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Reply to ccjersey:
Mike, I have never considered having the head resurfaced without removing the PC chambers first. I can see that eventually if carried to extremes, the chamber tips might hit the piston, but every piston I have seen has a well under the chamber so I think that is unlikely.
Besides, if you remove the chambers, you can clean up the threads, check them over for corrosion and replace any that are close to breaking through, inspect the inside of the head, and put some anti-seize on the threads for when you have to remove them in-site. If you were like me, I like to take everything apart so that I know it comes apart easily when I'm in a hurry or access etc. is tough. There aren't many nuts or bolts left on my D2 that haven't been removed, chased, anti-seized.
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 7:12 PM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to ccjersey:
Mike, I have never considered having the head resurfaced without removing the PC chambers first. I can see that eventually if carried to extremes, the chamber tips might hit the piston, but every piston I have seen has a well under the chamber so I think that is unlikely.
The guy here in Australia sent his head off to be reconditioned and apparently the shop tried to remove the precoms before machining but even with heat applied they were unable to get them out, as you know Jim those old precoms can be very tight and when I removed them from my D4400 heads I needed a 4 foot cheater bar to get them loose and the heads were still sitting on the engine blocks, it would be really difficult to get the precoms out with a head just sitting on a bench or on the floor.

My thought is the precom tip takes up space in the combustion chamber at TDC and if it is machined off during a head shave it is possible the compression pressure will be lowered, I remember discussing this with Eddie Bedwell awhile back and he mentioned those valve head protrusion dimensions are fairly critical if you wont to avoid hard starting.
regards
Mike
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 7:15 PM
kracked1
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Reply to Mike Meyer:
The guy here in Australia sent his head off to be reconditioned and apparently the shop tried to remove the precoms before machining but even with heat applied they were unable to get them out, as you know Jim those old precoms can be very tight and when I removed them from my D4400 heads I needed a 4 foot cheater bar to get them loose and the heads were still sitting on the engine blocks, it would be really difficult to get the precoms out with a head just sitting on a bench or on the floor.

My thought is the precom tip takes up space in the combustion chamber at TDC and if it is machined off during a head shave it is possible the compression pressure will be lowered, I remember discussing this with Eddie Bedwell awhile back and he mentioned those valve head protrusion dimensions are fairly critical if you wont to avoid hard starting.
regards
Mike
Mike you are very correct about the valve protrusion specs. It is very critical with a diesel engine. As they recess it lowers compression. That is why there is a spec stated.
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 8:33 PM
RobC
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Reply to kracked1:
Mike you are very correct about the valve protrusion specs. It is very critical with a diesel engine. As they recess it lowers compression. That is why there is a spec stated.
Yes I have the old head. Haven't tried removing the PC Chambers but I'll try.
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 9:10 PM
WA7OPY
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Reply to RobC:
Yes I have the old head. Haven't tried removing the PC Chambers but I'll try.
When I redone my 4400 I left the injector cups alone, all I could see is a disaster if i tried to remove them. I would have ground the head if they were out but there was no problem with the surface just would have saved a little clean up time and a ground surface looks good but not worth the fight if I fouled up the threads....WA7OPY
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Fri, Sep 14, 2018 9:47 PM
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