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D4 7U Seized?

D4 7U Seized?

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HighlandFarmer
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Good evening everyone. I was running my D4 7U some weeks back and had an oil leak from the oil gauge that I didn't notice while running it. The leak ended up getting so bad it blew the gauge right off and I immediately shut the engine off. I was just able to get some oil to fill it back up again but when I went to start it I couldn't get the engine to crank. I don't have much experience with this particular situation so any input on what I should do next would be appreciated. It's in a somewhat difficult area up on a ridge so I won't be able to tow it back to the house. It's level ground though. Should I try pulling it with my tractor or something to get it to free up? I don't want to make the situation worse without knowing what I'm doing first. Thanks!
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Tue, Jan 21, 2014 11:49 AM
ccjersey
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If you shut it down, most likely it isn't seized from lack of oil. Could be.........but not likely. Just how low was it when you checked it?

Any chance it got water down the exhaust or otherwise has water/coolant in it which is now frozen? Could also have water in the clutch housing which has frozen.

Do you crank it with the pony motor or do you have direct electric start? What does it do when you try to crank it?

I've overhauled an engine or two that lost oil pressure and were run to destruction. It becomes a race to failure between pistons seizing and coming apart and connecting rod bearings galling. If you can put a wrench on the crankshaft somehow, try to turn it a little. With seized pistons, you can usually get a tiny bit of movement on the crankshaft if the pistons are at TDC/BDC. If a bearing is seized, I don't think you will get any movement on the crankshaft at all. Could also take side covers off the engine and reach in to shake the connecting rod bearings and inspect for signs of heating and bearing material flaking
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, Jan 21, 2014 8:02 PM
HighlandFarmer
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Reply to ccjersey:
If you shut it down, most likely it isn't seized from lack of oil. Could be.........but not likely. Just how low was it when you checked it?

Any chance it got water down the exhaust or otherwise has water/coolant in it which is now frozen? Could also have water in the clutch housing which has frozen.

Do you crank it with the pony motor or do you have direct electric start? What does it do when you try to crank it?

I've overhauled an engine or two that lost oil pressure and were run to destruction. It becomes a race to failure between pistons seizing and coming apart and connecting rod bearings galling. If you can put a wrench on the crankshaft somehow, try to turn it a little. With seized pistons, you can usually get a tiny bit of movement on the crankshaft if the pistons are at TDC/BDC. If a bearing is seized, I don't think you will get any movement on the crankshaft at all. Could also take side covers off the engine and reach in to shake the connecting rod bearings and inspect for signs of heating and bearing material flaking
It was pretty much empty when I shut it down but that's because the gauge popped all the way off where it comes out of the engine. I don't think it took too long at that point for the oil to come out. I wasn't pushing dirt with it or pulling large logs when I had to shut it down, so the machine wasn't being over stressed when this happened. And I had been off of the machine a few minutes before and didn't notice anything out of ordinary. I noticed a loss of power right before I shut the engine off.

It could be water because I noticed yesterday that the pony motor exhaust is exposed, and I'm not sure why exactly unless the cap fell off. Could it be from that? I just had the machine converted to direct start about three months ago. When I try to crank it makes a clicking sound and nothing moves very much. I didn't hit it very hard because I don't want to burn anything out. I can turn the radiator fan by hand but the crankshaft won't move.

I'll try some things when I go out today and let you know what I find.
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Wed, Jan 22, 2014 2:45 AM
rjh-md
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Reply to HighlandFarmer:
It was pretty much empty when I shut it down but that's because the gauge popped all the way off where it comes out of the engine. I don't think it took too long at that point for the oil to come out. I wasn't pushing dirt with it or pulling large logs when I had to shut it down, so the machine wasn't being over stressed when this happened. And I had been off of the machine a few minutes before and didn't notice anything out of ordinary. I noticed a loss of power right before I shut the engine off.

It could be water because I noticed yesterday that the pony motor exhaust is exposed, and I'm not sure why exactly unless the cap fell off. Could it be from that? I just had the machine converted to direct start about three months ago. When I try to crank it makes a clicking sound and nothing moves very much. I didn't hit it very hard because I don't want to burn anything out. I can turn the radiator fan by hand but the crankshaft won't move.

I'll try some things when I go out today and let you know what I find.
That loss of power just before you shut it down is not a good sign.Your engine may have been seizing up at that time .Just to make sure its not a starter or electrical problem giving you a false reading ,I would remove the starter ,and try to bar over the engine through the starter mounting hole with a big screwdriver or pinch bar prying on the ring gear .If engine is seized you know it imediatly if it turns over you have a electrical problem or starter pinion may have locked up the ring gear .
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Wed, Jan 22, 2014 7:13 AM
HighlandFarmer
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Reply to rjh-md:
That loss of power just before you shut it down is not a good sign.Your engine may have been seizing up at that time .Just to make sure its not a starter or electrical problem giving you a false reading ,I would remove the starter ,and try to bar over the engine through the starter mounting hole with a big screwdriver or pinch bar prying on the ring gear .If engine is seized you know it imediatly if it turns over you have a electrical problem or starter pinion may have locked up the ring gear .
Thanks for the replies guys. I checked it out yesterday and the crankshaft does move a tiny bit. I know this might be kind of a hard question, but with seized pistons what am I looking at in terms of the cost of parts for repairs? Can the work be done up there or should I take the engine off the tractor and bring it to the shop? I have the reference manual that shows how to remove everything. I have friends who can help me out with the work, but I'd like to know some kind of estimate. I appreciate it. I've put so much money into this machine already it doesn't make sense to not keep it going. Plus the body is in fairly pristine shape even though the engine was neglected in a lot of ways before I got it.
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Fri, Jan 24, 2014 3:51 AM
Inter674
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Reply to HighlandFarmer:
Thanks for the replies guys. I checked it out yesterday and the crankshaft does move a tiny bit. I know this might be kind of a hard question, but with seized pistons what am I looking at in terms of the cost of parts for repairs? Can the work be done up there or should I take the engine off the tractor and bring it to the shop? I have the reference manual that shows how to remove everything. I have friends who can help me out with the work, but I'd like to know some kind of estimate. I appreciate it. I've put so much money into this machine already it doesn't make sense to not keep it going. Plus the body is in fairly pristine shape even though the engine was neglected in a lot of ways before I got it.
Hi

I bought a D47U with a siezed engine which the owner said turned a bit. It did turn a bit but on dissassembly two pistons were completely siezed, two mains were fused and two con rod bearings also ruined AND the crankshaft was cracked in several places😞

The camshaft escaped injury as did the other critical parts but suffice to say it cost me about 4 grand to fix it - yours would be cheaper as parts here in Aus are all gold plated with diamond studs. We had to purchase another engine for a crank as well as source new pistons, sleeves, rings, bearings etc - not soooo bad as I paid little for it in the first place.

Sorry to be negative but you might also be in this situation. It may pay also to track down the cause. Mine was due to the lack of a rear main seal allowing the engine oil to flow into the flywheel and clutch housings when working up steep slopes - something Cat fixed through a later 'field modification program'.

I nearly siezed it again because of the same issue but fortunately my son checked the engine oil level mid work and shut it down 'cause the dip stick was dry. Seeing no obvious escape routes we checked the flywheel housing and lo and behold all the engine oil was in there from which it cannot return readily to the engine sump. Talk about a stupid design but once the large and very expensive seal was fitted (which required splitting the tractor again) and which runs on a flange at the rear of the flywheel, we had no more leaks.

Good luck and I hope it turns out better for you.
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Fri, Jan 24, 2014 4:30 AM
ccjersey
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I don't know what your weather and your tolerance for misery are like, but it would be possible to block up the front of the tractor and remove the equalizer spring to allow removal of the oil pan. There is a thread Bill Glen put up a year or so ago detailing the process he went through to replace some spun crankshaft bearings after his 933 loader was started with frozen water in the bottom of the oil pan. The whole job was done with the engine in the loader, but I cannot remember if he even took the head off since his problems were mostly bearings.

Might also be possible to "recover" the whole machine and put it in the shop with a suitable machine. Sure is nicer to work with all the comforts of home!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Jan 24, 2014 8:40 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ccjersey:
I don't know what your weather and your tolerance for misery are like, but it would be possible to block up the front of the tractor and remove the equalizer spring to allow removal of the oil pan. There is a thread Bill Glen put up a year or so ago detailing the process he went through to replace some spun crankshaft bearings after his 933 loader was started with frozen water in the bottom of the oil pan. The whole job was done with the engine in the loader, but I cannot remember if he even took the head off since his problems were mostly bearings.

Might also be possible to "recover" the whole machine and put it in the shop with a suitable machine. Sure is nicer to work with all the comforts of home!
Bill Glen's unit was a 955. I remember being pretty heavily involved with advising recovery on that one. There were a lot of nay sayers that doubted recovery was possible without complete tear down and overhaul.
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Fri, Jan 24, 2014 10:39 AM
Paso Bob
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Bill Glen's unit was a 955. I remember being pretty heavily involved with advising recovery on that one. There were a lot of nay sayers that doubted recovery was possible without complete tear down and overhaul.
I'm not sure where you are located. I may have a lead on a complete 7U engine. Let me know if you want me to follow up on it.
D-4 7U-43159 with 4S dozer and Cat 40 scraper, D-7 3T-1179 with Cat 7S hydraulic dozer, D-7 17A 13,944, D-8 14A-1160 with Cat 8S cable dozer, Cat 12-99E-4433 Grader. All runners and users.
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Fri, Jan 24, 2014 11:25 AM
neil
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Reply to Paso Bob:
I'm not sure where you are located. I may have a lead on a complete 7U engine. Let me know if you want me to follow up on it.
Inter, a fellow round these parts with a D2 had the same thing - pushed up a slope, all the oil ran out the rear, and he spun a main bearing. That whole rig (D2) is now for sale as he didn't have local expertise to fix it - as far as I could tell it just needed a crank (repair or replace) and bearings.
Cheers,
Neil
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Fri, Jan 24, 2014 8:31 PM
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