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D4 7u Runs again, but....

D4 7u Runs again, but....

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mbscat
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Sorry no pictured yet. After 16 months of off and on time my dad has finished rebuilding his D4 7u.
Two questions for you guys that have worked on these more than we have. First at low idle if he engages the clutch there is a lot of racket from the bell housing area. Doesn't seem to matter if the transmission is in gear or neutral. As soon as he revs the throttle up a little the rattle goes away. He put a new brass throwout bearing and possibly some other new parts in this area. Any ideas what the noise is? He also reworked the oiler so is uses track oil for lubrication now.
Second.
He was driving it across the field pulling a load to break in the engine and after about 1/2 mile he noticed water coming up around 2 studs on the head. The studs are at the very back of the head right in the middle, one is a 1/2 inch the other is a 5/8 stud. After this he took it back to the shop and idled it for a while with the radiator cap off. No bubbles ever came up. We are thinking that the water is leaking up the threads on these two studs and coming out. He noticed a lot of corrosion around these studs when he took the engine apart but credited that to a leaky sleeve because he did have bubbles in the cooling system before he tore this thing down.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:24 AM
Inter674
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Hi

there is an anti rattle/pull back spring in the bellhousing that connect bettwen the bellhousing casting and the clutch assembly that can get lost or break. Maybe check to see this is in place first. Otherwise I would suspect something is loose in the over centre latches or perhaps the drive shaft coupling is incorrectly fitted or loose.

WRT to the head leaks, I think you are probably looking at a partial head gasket failure or most likely leaking water directors due to the directors either being missing, split or not seated correctly on install. Maybe it will take up with time.
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Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:37 AM
edb
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Reply to Inter674:
Hi

there is an anti rattle/pull back spring in the bellhousing that connect bettwen the bellhousing casting and the clutch assembly that can get lost or break. Maybe check to see this is in place first. Otherwise I would suspect something is loose in the over centre latches or perhaps the drive shaft coupling is incorrectly fitted or loose.

WRT to the head leaks, I think you are probably looking at a partial head gasket failure or most likely leaking water directors due to the directors either being missing, split or not seated correctly on install. Maybe it will take up with time.
Hi mbscat,
check your low idle speed. By the Rack Chart it is 550 Rpm.
Depending on engine and injector condition the engine may be idling too slow and/or roughly.
Rough idling would cause the clutch linkages to rattle and, also the clutch plate to rattle in the flywheel splines.
At The Dealer I used to adjust L.Idle for smoothest tick over, even if I had to go 20-50 Rpm's above Rack Chart setting.
Later engines had specs for LI that were usually given as + - 30 Rpm to get best tick over.

For your water leakage you should try re-torquing the head nut and see what happens--the old 3 piece head gaskets were renowned for loosening up after a few runs from replacement.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Tue, Aug 20, 2013 10:48 AM
ccjersey
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Use some stop leak I am using one called Dike these days. I like it over BarsLeaks. I think it is less likely to clog a partially plugged radiator than BarsLeaks.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, Aug 20, 2013 11:23 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to ccjersey:
Use some stop leak I am using one called Dike these days. I like it over BarsLeaks. I think it is less likely to clog a partially plugged radiator than BarsLeaks.
Did he check the liner protrusion?
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Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:18 AM
mbscat
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Reply to Rome K/G:
Did he check the liner protrusion?
He did a lot of work on liner protrusion. He clamped the liners down and made sure the protrusion was with in spec (0.004 I think), consistent between all the liners, and very consistent around the circumference of every liner.
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Wed, Aug 21, 2013 10:05 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to mbscat:
He did a lot of work on liner protrusion. He clamped the liners down and made sure the protrusion was with in spec (0.004 I think), consistent between all the liners, and very consistent around the circumference of every liner.
Ok, may be one of those water directors, they can get pinched or not seat properly, sometimes the ferrule wont fit in the head or block.
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Thu, Aug 22, 2013 7:04 AM
ccjersey
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I would not tear a newly repaired engine back down for a leak like that unless it won't stop with a cooling system stop leak product. Even if you have to go in and unclog the radiator later, that is less of a job on most machines than removing the head yet again.

It sounds as if there may be something unusual about this one since it was leaking in that area before the tear down and is leaking in the same spot after a proper repair. I'm wondering if perhaps the block casting is porous or cracked between the water jacket and the tapped hole the studs screw into. Of course could also be the head cracked in the area of the two studs where the coolant is leaking. Not like it would be easy to see that one unless you pressure checked the head.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Aug 22, 2013 8:10 AM
mbscat
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Reply to ccjersey:
I would not tear a newly repaired engine back down for a leak like that unless it won't stop with a cooling system stop leak product. Even if you have to go in and unclog the radiator later, that is less of a job on most machines than removing the head yet again.

It sounds as if there may be something unusual about this one since it was leaking in that area before the tear down and is leaking in the same spot after a proper repair. I'm wondering if perhaps the block casting is porous or cracked between the water jacket and the tapped hole the studs screw into. Of course could also be the head cracked in the area of the two studs where the coolant is leaking. Not like it would be easy to see that one unless you pressure checked the head.
He ran it a couple of times yesterday then removed the offending stud and watched it for a while. Of course it didn't leak right away. When he came back a half hour later he could see a wet spot on the side of the clearance hole in the head. We are pretty sure the casting is porus and seeping. The entire cooling system was full of rusty crud when he took it apart. I think the cat came from a farm in southern California originally pulling a disc, the hour meter stopped just shy of 10,000 so no idea how many hours are actually on it. It looked like the cooling system was run on water for a long time without antifreeze.

To repair this he added some sodium silicate to the cooling system, also known as water glass. This should work its way into any cracks or holes then dry up hard when exposed to air. This way we don't fill the cooling system with contaminates. We will know in a couple of days.
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Thu, Aug 22, 2013 8:06 PM
mbscat
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He ran it a couple of times yesterday then removed the offending stud and watched it for a while. Of course it didn't leak right away. When he came back a half hour later he could see a wet spot on the side of the clearance hole in the head. We are pretty sure the casting is porus and seeping. The entire cooling system was full of rusty crud when he took it apart. I think the cat came from a farm in southern California originally pulling a disc, the hour meter stopped just shy of 10,000 so no idea how many hours are actually on it. It looked like the cooling system was run on water for a long time without antifreeze.

To repair this he added some sodium silicate to the cooling system, also known as water glass. This should work its way into any cracks or holes then dry up hard when exposed to air. This way we don't fill the cooling system with contaminates. We will know in a couple of days.
Well it is sealed up. After running off and on for a couple of days the stud kept getting dryer and dryer. It has been two days now with no more water. My dad is pretty sure this has leaked the last 30 years he has owned the tractor. Ever since he got it he told me the cooling system has leaked down to an unknown location.
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Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:08 PM
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