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d4 7u cracked block

d4 7u cracked block

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nbent
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in a thread i started i did an update with some questions that i didn't get many answers to. on my cat there wasn't strong enough antifreeze in the coolant si it cracked and broke the lower radiator tank and both engines. the engines didn't receive any internal damage and the pony needs rebuilt, also i need to pull the governor and fuel injector pump to replace the o ring seals. okay first question is earlier this year when i was working the cat disking some ground the clutch compartment filled roughly a quarter of the way full with an oil diesel fuel mixture, an added note while first disking it was over a bunch of small mounds of dirt so the cat would be on an incline for only a few seconds at a time but level after that plus the breather was clean and functioning, would that be a sign of a bad rear main seal or because the diesel was mixed in the crankcase was over full and ran into the clutch through the seal. if it is the rear main i will pull the main engine if not i won't bother it.

second question when i brought it into the shop i drained the engine oil and the clutch but the clutch had ice in the bottom not much maybe a half inch thick right above the drain plug i read some where that there are coolant passages for the pony in the bell housing but i don't remember if that was on a d4 or another cat tractor. should i be worried about this or is it condensation and other water getting into it from sitting outside.

third as stated above the pony has a cracked block and needs rebuilt would it be better to rebuild it or just replace the whole thing or if most of the internals check out okay replace the block but keep the other internals from this engine.

fourth on the main engine where it is cracked is behind the governor and the pony clutch but in going to pull both off to get them out of the way any way. now on repairing the crack it looks like there are 3 options brazing it, welding it, and using an epoxy such as jb weld, this is a play tractor not a show tractor or work tractor. if i decide to weld it or braze it would it be wise to pull the #4 sleeve so it won't ruin the seal or are these dry sleeves.

sorry for it being so long winded i just try to avoid having many questions asked over a lot of little details that have cured some problems for other tractors
d4 7u 6191
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Fri, Jan 23, 2015 3:16 PM
neil
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I'll take a shot at it:
#2 - when you disassemble, look for evidence of leaks but for me, I'd just clean it out and then monitor it, because it doesn't seem like a lot of water and that amount could easily have accumulated from condensation and seepage from the clutch cover
#3 - if the pony is only cracked on the outside and the bores are good and it otherwise runs fine, then just braze and use some stop-leak. Some folks JBWeld those cracks, even big "flaps" of external jacket that have been pushed out. That's what I did with mine and it's golden. If you have to rebuild the pony due to wear etc, then you could consider a block change but even then I'd not go to a lot of bother unless I had one right there and it was ready to be fitted (that's just me though)
#4 - JBWeld would be your easiest option and would avoid any need to pull the liner. I'd try that first if time is not of the essence because if it works well enough for you, then there's nothing more needing to be done. I'd also put some stop-leak in there after JBWelding it to give it the best shot at sealing up. If the crack goes right up to the deck and to the liner bore, then JBWeld is not going to fix that.
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Fri, Jan 23, 2015 8:20 PM
Old Magnet
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Aaah, suspect "O-ring" is located between fuel pump and filter tower. While your in there change the same o-ring at the other end of the fuel pump.
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Fri, Jan 23, 2015 11:07 PM
blwatson
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Had same problem with my D4 7U, crankcase oil draining from the dry clutch housing. First thought I had leaking rear main seal. Was told by local cat service department that there is not a rear seal but it is an "oil slinger" type seal. I was getting diesel in the crankcase and thinning the oil to the point that it was getting past the oil slinger. I have not had a chance to fix things yet but plan to replace seals between filter housing and injector pump to solve the diesel in crankcase problem first. Will also probably not use a multi viscosity oil in the future. This is my first experience with this so only going on what I was told by the cat people concerning the oil slinger.
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Fri, Jan 23, 2015 11:21 PM
nbent
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Reply to blwatson:
Had same problem with my D4 7U, crankcase oil draining from the dry clutch housing. First thought I had leaking rear main seal. Was told by local cat service department that there is not a rear seal but it is an "oil slinger" type seal. I was getting diesel in the crankcase and thinning the oil to the point that it was getting past the oil slinger. I have not had a chance to fix things yet but plan to replace seals between filter housing and injector pump to solve the diesel in crankcase problem first. Will also probably not use a multi viscosity oil in the future. This is my first experience with this so only going on what I was told by the cat people concerning the oil slinger.
when i got this tractor in September i went through and changed all oils and drained the clutch housing and replaced the oil with 15w-40 diesel engine oil should this be a straight weight oil? sounds like im having the same issue as blwatson using the multiweight with the leaking o rings.

i have decided to pull the pony for an inspection by a machine shop for the bore and check the crank. also in taking off the injector pump to replace the o rings which would be the easiest to pull first also im going to pull the head off to inspect the main engine bore plus check to see how far the crack has gone up the block for sure.
d4 7u 6191
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 2:31 AM
Inter674
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Reply to blwatson:
Had same problem with my D4 7U, crankcase oil draining from the dry clutch housing. First thought I had leaking rear main seal. Was told by local cat service department that there is not a rear seal but it is an "oil slinger" type seal. I was getting diesel in the crankcase and thinning the oil to the point that it was getting past the oil slinger. I have not had a chance to fix things yet but plan to replace seals between filter housing and injector pump to solve the diesel in crankcase problem first. Will also probably not use a multi viscosity oil in the future. This is my first experience with this so only going on what I was told by the cat people concerning the oil slinger.
Ah yes and the issue of the rear seal has been covered before and there was a fix provided by Cat which requires the machine to be split to install the lipped seal. This is needed when working on steep slopes to prevent the sump emptying into the bellhousing - as I found out when working a dam face😞

The seal is still available but you need to be seated in the recovery position when asking the price!!
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 2:35 AM
Jack
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Reply to Inter674:
Ah yes and the issue of the rear seal has been covered before and there was a fix provided by Cat which requires the machine to be split to install the lipped seal. This is needed when working on steep slopes to prevent the sump emptying into the bellhousing - as I found out when working a dam face😞

The seal is still available but you need to be seated in the recovery position when asking the price!!
My D2 5J came to me with a cracked water jacket--same place, behind the pump and governor--in 1969. It had been patched with a piece of sheet steel and a thick cork gasket, held on with 1/4" cap screws in holes tapped into the water jacket and gooped with something, probably permatex. It has never leaked or required any attention. 1969 from 2015, let's see. I think that's something like 46 years coming up, and how long before I got it? I'd say it's a pretty darned good fix.
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 11:12 AM
ccjersey
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If you have fuel diluting the crankcase oil, unless you are using a single weight oil for extreme heat (and are in normal temps), the diesel is going to ruin the viscosity about as soon as if you were using multi weight oil.

We usually get pretty opinionated about oil on here, but I think we can all agree that you must fix the cause whenever your engine oil level is increasing. I have always heard that an engine that "does not use any oil" must be getting some fuel into the crankcase, most likely from unburned fuel making it past the rings, but possible to have small leaks from other sources.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 12:15 PM
drujinin
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Reply to ccjersey:
If you have fuel diluting the crankcase oil, unless you are using a single weight oil for extreme heat (and are in normal temps), the diesel is going to ruin the viscosity about as soon as if you were using multi weight oil.

We usually get pretty opinionated about oil on here, but I think we can all agree that you must fix the cause whenever your engine oil level is increasing. I have always heard that an engine that "does not use any oil" must be getting some fuel into the crankcase, most likely from unburned fuel making it past the rings, but possible to have small leaks from other sources.
called "Balzone"(?) recommended for repairs in the CAT Parts Supply catalog. It is an expensive super strong epoxy that is even recommended for replacing lost material as it supposedly sets up stronger than Steel(?)
Did you give any thought to having an Engine Machine Shop pin the block?
Depending on the direction and length of the crack along with skill level of Brazing, I would not rule out the 2 above ideas.
I would NOT recommend Arc Welding unless you had a way to heat it and cool it slowly. Yes, there are a dozen techniques for Welding Cast materials, BUT you may only have one shot at getting this one right without cracking during repair!
As far as Oil?
Lots of people run Multi-Weights but CAT does recommend running a Straight Grade.
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 8:39 PM
restore49
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Reply to drujinin:
called "Balzone"(?) recommended for repairs in the CAT Parts Supply catalog. It is an expensive super strong epoxy that is even recommended for replacing lost material as it supposedly sets up stronger than Steel(?)
Did you give any thought to having an Engine Machine Shop pin the block?
Depending on the direction and length of the crack along with skill level of Brazing, I would not rule out the 2 above ideas.
I would NOT recommend Arc Welding unless you had a way to heat it and cool it slowly. Yes, there are a dozen techniques for Welding Cast materials, BUT you may only have one shot at getting this one right without cracking during repair!
As far as Oil?
Lots of people run Multi-Weights but CAT does recommend running a Straight Grade.
A good welder can braze the block to last a lifetime - have worked on many a working engine brazed when I was still in diapers.
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 9:16 PM
Paso Bob
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Reply to restore49:
A good welder can braze the block to last a lifetime - have worked on many a working engine brazed when I was still in diapers.
I used to own a 7U that the main and pony were both cracked before I purchased it. I bought it for a parts tractor and it was too good to tear apart. The fix on the pony was brazed plates over the cracked areas, and for the main engine the large crack was filled with JB Weld. They held up well. It ran great for me and I sold the tractor with full disclosure and to my knowledge it is still chugging.
D-4 7U-43159 with 4S dozer and Cat 40 scraper, D-7 3T-1179 with Cat 7S hydraulic dozer, D-7 17A 13,944, D-8 14A-1160 with Cat 8S cable dozer, Cat 12-99E-4433 Grader. All runners and users.
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Sat, Jan 24, 2015 10:43 PM
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