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D4 6U engine over haul. How deep should I go?

D4 6U engine over haul. How deep should I go?

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57jacob
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AS i have posted before I had so water problems on my D4 fill up the radiator and it would push it back out the over flow tube. Many suggested that the PCC seals was causing this, a few said it could be a liner, and some said it could be a blown head gasket... I did all the simple checks first until it came down to the problem was coming from the #4 cylinder. So i pulled the head and and found the head gasket blown out around the fire ring leading over to the water port. Also along to find that where the water had been getting to the cylinder long enough that the top of the piston and liner was badly pitted and corosion.... But with high hopes i cleaned the head and the block put new head gasket on with ferrules and rubbers for the water torqued it all down filled it up with water, (never starting it i pressurised the cylinders) :frown: to find the problem has slowed down but is still there..... I took the head back off and 2 miles down the road to one of the best machine guys around. He said ya looks like you got a problem but he could fix it.... Valve job and a little milling work....👋 I told him what the liner and piston looked like and he said to replace the liner for it wont ever seal right against the head..... So now the way i always believed is if you thighten up the top end you better do the bottom or it will fail next. what are your thoughts? How deep would you the full depth over haul rods mains liners pistons rings? or could a guy get by with all that minus the pistons? or simply just do the one liner and go with it..... Any help from you old cat experts is much needed.

Thanks 57jacob
1953 D4 6u, 1953 John Deere 60, 1939 farmall M, mf super 90, and once upon a time 1957 Mack B61
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Fri, Dec 21, 2012 11:52 AM
ccjersey
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There is frequently no clear stopping point. I would say just do the one and reuse your new gasket set unless your pistons have a lot of ring groove wear or the sleeves have a lot of "ring groove " at the top of ring travel.

I should have the specs on the crank bearing clearances etc at work. I am planning th plastigauge the rod bearings on our D7 this morning.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:19 PM
drujinin
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Reply to ccjersey:
There is frequently no clear stopping point. I would say just do the one and reuse your new gasket set unless your pistons have a lot of ring groove wear or the sleeves have a lot of "ring groove " at the top of ring travel.

I should have the specs on the crank bearing clearances etc at work. I am planning th plastigauge the rod bearings on our D7 this morning.
If it is a "Play Tractor", then do the one cylinder.
If your income depends on it, then go crazy and spend yourself into Debt.
My Opinion
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Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:55 PM
neil
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Reply to drujinin:
If it is a "Play Tractor", then do the one cylinder.
If your income depends on it, then go crazy and spend yourself into Debt.
My Opinion
I have what I suspect is the same issue on my 3J D2 but on #3 cylinder. If the liner is unserviceable, I plan to only replace that one. I've also taken this approach on the 8V71 in my logging truck which was a production machine and it was fine.
Cheers,
Neil.
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Fri, Dec 21, 2012 10:28 PM
Rome K/G
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Reply to neil:
I have what I suspect is the same issue on my 3J D2 but on #3 cylinder. If the liner is unserviceable, I plan to only replace that one. I've also taken this approach on the 8V71 in my logging truck which was a production machine and it was fine.
Cheers,
Neil.
I would part that engine and find another block or complete engine. Try Zimmerman Tractor 573-378-7210
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Fri, Dec 21, 2012 10:50 PM
8C 361
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Reply to Rome K/G:
I would part that engine and find another block or complete engine. Try Zimmerman Tractor 573-378-7210
How is the liner protrusion on the rest of the liners? If it is OK I would not disturb them and just replace piston and liner on the offending cylinder and match protrusion with the others. You can check the bearings with plastigage but there is no reason to believe they have failed.
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Fri, Dec 21, 2012 11:16 PM
rjh-md
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Reply to 8C 361:
How is the liner protrusion on the rest of the liners? If it is OK I would not disturb them and just replace piston and liner on the offending cylinder and match protrusion with the others. You can check the bearings with plastigage but there is no reason to believe they have failed.
I would check the counterbore in that cylinder for cracks in the 90 degree corners .Install the old liner with out any sealing rings in the bottom ,and the copper shim under the top of the line .Use a H bar puller to tighten down on the top of the liner .Use a mic to measure the liner protrusion ,should be at least .003 to .004 above the block .If its low ,that cylinder can be counterbored ,even if there is a crack in the counter bore .A local machine shop or Cat dealer can counter bore the block ,and add a thicker shim under the liner to raise the counter bore .This gives the needed crush between the top of liner and gasket to head thats needed to seal the combustion pressure .
As far as how for to go .I have just did a D315 engine in a 7U in frame with new rod bearings ,liner kits ,new rist pin bushings ,and reworked the heards .Iused Clevite bearings ,and liner kits ,machine shop work on heads .the bill was around $3500 That will give you an approximent idea of an in frame
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:23 AM
57jacob
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Reply to 8C 361:
How is the liner protrusion on the rest of the liners? If it is OK I would not disturb them and just replace piston and liner on the offending cylinder and match protrusion with the others. You can check the bearings with plastigage but there is no reason to believe they have failed.
Yes as most of us on here its a play tractor... But we do use it on the farm but mainly play clear a fence row or the growth around field where every year the plow inchs away from the edge of the field. The only problem with parting the engine out and find another block or complete engine you could end up with the same problem...

8c361 the liners of the rest the cylinders look nice and clean no scaring or major wear.. The tops of the liners have that slight ring grove but nothing extreme... The hour meter says 10380 hours it still counts as i run it but if has ever been changed idk.

:jaw:Holy crap i just got off the phone with my local cat dealer to buy everything to complete a overhaul is over $2800.00 thats more than i gave for the old D4.. A new liner is $109.21, a new piston is $135.89, and a ring set i did not hear them correctly but it was $75 or $175 :confused2:

Are these ok price's? is there a better supplier? How about anyone out there that as a used set?
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:39 AM
drujinin
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Reply to 57jacob:
Yes as most of us on here its a play tractor... But we do use it on the farm but mainly play clear a fence row or the growth around field where every year the plow inchs away from the edge of the field. The only problem with parting the engine out and find another block or complete engine you could end up with the same problem...

8c361 the liners of the rest the cylinders look nice and clean no scaring or major wear.. The tops of the liners have that slight ring grove but nothing extreme... The hour meter says 10380 hours it still counts as i run it but if has ever been changed idk.

:jaw:Holy crap i just got off the phone with my local cat dealer to buy everything to complete a overhaul is over $2800.00 thats more than i gave for the old D4.. A new liner is $109.21, a new piston is $135.89, and a ring set i did not hear them correctly but it was $75 or $175 :confused2:

Are these ok price's? is there a better supplier? How about anyone out there that as a used set?
Rings at $75 a hole equals $300 for 4 holes is about right.
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 3:00 AM
rjh-md
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Reply to drujinin:
Rings at $75 a hole equals $300 for 4 holes is about right.
Believe it or not ,Its cheeper to buy liner kits from Clevite ,than to buy individual parts . Especially if your talking liners or pistons
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 3:34 AM
snowshoveler
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Reply to rjh-md:
Believe it or not ,Its cheeper to buy liner kits from Clevite ,than to buy individual parts . Especially if your talking liners or pistons
I am a little slow on the parts...which engine is in your crawler.
Regards Chris
193? d4400 cat powerunit
1950 john deere M
1959 international t5 crawler
1977 powerking 1216 tractor
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Sat, Dec 22, 2012 4:41 AM
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