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D4 5T problem !

D4 5T problem !

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yogi
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Hello

Wonder if anyone has an idea to what the problem is with my D4 5T

I started it up this week with the donkey, it took a lot longer that normal not too sure why I just put it down to the cold.
I let it run for ten minutes and drove it a good distance to a pile of soil I needed to move, as I pushed the soil up the bank I heard a loud knocking noise from the engine, it scared me so much I shut the engine off straight away.

Now I had the problem of what to do as I had nothing to tow it with and it was a long way from the shed and could do nothing in the field.

After long consideration I started it via the donkey and limped it back to the shed.
It is defiantly not firing on all four, it is making a very disturbing knocking noise, it was breathing very hard, lots of smoke vapour from the breather.
lots of oil is now leaking from the front two decompression leavers on the side of the block (marked in picture) and oil appears to be seeping from the back of the head by the donkey engine.

As soon as I got it under cover I shut it down

Any ideas what could be wrong with it?

Yogi
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Fri, Nov 9, 2012 10:05 AM
ccjersey
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My bet.........Piston came apart. CAT had lots of designs over the years and one was a 2 piece where the top actually screwed onto the base and had a pin to lock it. Folks usually report they got showered by small bits of hot aluminum.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Fri, Nov 9, 2012 8:02 PM
yogi
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Reply to ccjersey:
My bet.........Piston came apart. CAT had lots of designs over the years and one was a 2 piece where the top actually screwed onto the base and had a pin to lock it. Folks usually report they got showered by small bits of hot aluminum.
Finally I have had the time and weather to have a look at the engine.
On taking the head off I noticed a little hole in the rear piston so went onto take the piston out.

Here are some pictures of the piston.
I just wonder if anyone knows why it happened, what the probably cause was, as I am thinking that all of them may go the same way soon.
I am on a real tight budget with it, so very reluctant to replace all the pistons even if I could find some, but would hate myself to put it back together and the others fail in the near future.

Also the valves on the same piston appear to protrude a little, which I have never seen in my limited experience, I have to get a valve tool before I can get them out to have a good look.

The bearings look a little pitted, is this acceptable? I will only be using the dozer for around 100 hrs a year and hopefully for many years to come, winching out logs in the winter from the bush. So if I need to replace them to keep it going I will but obviously will have to rob a bank first ๐Ÿ˜†
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Sun, Jun 16, 2013 2:22 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to yogi:
Finally I have had the time and weather to have a look at the engine.
On taking the head off I noticed a little hole in the rear piston so went onto take the piston out.

Here are some pictures of the piston.
I just wonder if anyone knows why it happened, what the probably cause was, as I am thinking that all of them may go the same way soon.
I am on a real tight budget with it, so very reluctant to replace all the pistons even if I could find some, but would hate myself to put it back together and the others fail in the near future.

Also the valves on the same piston appear to protrude a little, which I have never seen in my limited experience, I have to get a valve tool before I can get them out to have a good look.

The bearings look a little pitted, is this acceptable? I will only be using the dozer for around 100 hrs a year and hopefully for many years to come, winching out logs in the winter from the bush. So if I need to replace them to keep it going I will but obviously will have to rob a bank first ๐Ÿ˜†
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That small amount of pitting won't hurt anything. But do check the clearances and what is the condition of the journals? That pitting is most likely caused by acid etching, combination of water in the oil and infrequent oil changes.

The element of time and a poor design is probably what got to your piston/s, not much you could do about it. May be able to find some good used one piece pistons, nothing wrong with that if the ring land clearances make spec.

On the valve protrusion, you need to check seating, possible some of the piston material got trapped in there.
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Sun, Jun 16, 2013 3:35 AM
edb
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Reply to Old Magnet:
That small amount of pitting won't hurt anything. But do check the clearances and what is the condition of the journals? That pitting is most likely caused by acid etching, combination of water in the oil and infrequent oil changes.

The element of time and a poor design is probably what got to your piston/s, not much you could do about it. May be able to find some good used one piece pistons, nothing wrong with that if the ring land clearances make spec.

On the valve protrusion, you need to check seating, possible some of the piston material got trapped in there.
Hi Team,
broken piston rings usually produce the piston ring land erosion failure pictured. Spec = 0.010" max. side clearance between ring and groove.
The valve heads on later D4400/4600 engines can protrude up to 3/32" for exhaust, and 1/8" for inlet. Early D4400/4600 engines had pocketed valves--as you recall.

Maybe swap the big-end bearing shells from upper to lower etc. if the clearance is in new spec. = 0.0055"-0.008"
Max. is given at 0.013" for aluminium bearings.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Sun, Jun 16, 2013 9:01 AM
drujinin
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
broken piston rings usually produce the piston ring land erosion failure pictured. Spec = 0.010" max. side clearance between ring and groove.
The valve heads on later D4400/4600 engines can protrude up to 3/32" for exhaust, and 1/8" for inlet. Early D4400/4600 engines had pocketed valves--as you recall.

Maybe swap the big-end bearing shells from upper to lower etc. if the clearance is in new spec. = 0.0055"-0.008"
Max. is given at 0.013" for aluminium bearings.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
I agree that at 100 hours a year, I would try to replace only one piston.
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Sun, Jun 16, 2013 7:35 PM
yogi
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Reply to drujinin:
I agree that at 100 hours a year, I would try to replace only one piston.
Thank you so much for the replies.

I will try and find a piston for it and check the clearances on the others.

Does anyone know where the best place to find one or person to speak with in the Ottawa area?

Thanks again for the help and advice.
Yogi
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Sun, Jun 16, 2013 8:50 PM
gemdozer
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Reply to yogi:
Thank you so much for the replies.

I will try and find a piston for it and check the clearances on the others.

Does anyone know where the best place to find one or person to speak with in the Ottawa area?

Thanks again for the help and advice.
Yogi
I check tomorrow if am still have some piston and located near MONTREAL
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Mon, Jun 17, 2013 1:35 AM
yogi
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Reply to gemdozer:
I check tomorrow if am still have some piston and located near MONTREAL
Fantastic, Thank you

Yogi
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Mon, Jun 17, 2013 1:47 AM
yogi
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Reply to yogi:
Fantastic, Thank you

Yogi
Hi

Slowly getting the engine back together, put the head on today, can anyone shed light on how to get the water seal between the cylinder head and donkey engine in.

The only way that i can see at the moment is to loosen the donkey and tip it back, but reluctant as will have to replace the bottom gasket =$$$$$

Is there a trick to it or do I need to order a gasket ๐Ÿ˜†

Thanks
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Sat, Sep 14, 2013 4:52 AM
ccjersey
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pieces of thin steel or brass shim stock to guide it in and soap/tire lube it up really well before stuffing it in and then pull the shim stock out.

There was a CAT approved modification to the original mating surface to make it easier to do this. Will have to look for a picture of it, but you would have to do this before you got to the point you're at now. If it cannot be stuffed in with shims, I think your best bet is going to be lifting the pony. Grease at least one surface of the base gasket so if you ever need to do this again, it may not stick. Can also use anti-seize lubricant instead of grease.

Link to thread with pictures edb put up
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?17686-D2-3J654-head-reinstall&highlight=pony+water+gasket
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Sat, Sep 14, 2013 6:55 AM
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