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D333 fuel pump timming

D333 fuel pump timming

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djcat
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I would like to know if there is another way of checking the fuel pump timing on a D6c 73a series with an old scroll pump other than using the 2M5219 gauge as outlined by the manual. They don't use a timing fixture plate like the later engines as the accessory drive gear is keyed to the shaft so there is no way to adjust it anyway.
Seems like a pain in bum to pull elements out to check the timing. It appears to me that gauge is basically a machined tube 2" long that is located in the the plunger bore and a depth micrometer is used to check the timing dimension.

Any thoughts......

Cheers djcat
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Thu, Dec 12, 2013 4:30 PM
BillWalter
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That is the way to do it. If timing is slow, then you have to buy new spacers that are thicker in increments of .002 of an inch and "raise" the lifter. Not the best idea in the world!!
Bill Walter
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Thu, Dec 12, 2013 10:45 PM
edb
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Reply to BillWalter:
That is the way to do it. If timing is slow, then you have to buy new spacers that are thicker in increments of .002 of an inch and "raise" the lifter. Not the best idea in the world!!
Bill Walter
Hi Team,
these pumps are set up off engine with special tooling--ie, a pointer, degree wheel, spacer you mention and a type of depth micrometer with a dial indicator mounted to it.
You adjust the lifter setting by changing spacers of varying thicknesses to set the phasing-internal timing of the pumps--and when fitted to the engine the injection timing should be correct due to the offset tang drive.
To advance the timing you need to fit thinner spacers. This effectively lowers the inj pump barrel ports in relation to the plunger--the plunger will close off the barrel port sooner and then start to inject.
To retard the timing thicker spacers are fitted.
When using the degree wheel etc. you measure the lifter dimension and use spacers of the needed thickness to achieve the lifter dimension.
At The Dealer we had a pigeon hole cupboard with all the different sized spacers in so we could quickly select from the available range of sizes.
This lifter setting is not usually done On Engine--I recall only ever doing one 933 that was a hard starter as it was an el-cheapo direct electric start-- without glow plugs--soon sorted it out but what a fiddle to do on engine. This was also my first go at lifter setting on a compact pump.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
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Fri, Dec 13, 2013 5:23 AM
BillWalter
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
these pumps are set up off engine with special tooling--ie, a pointer, degree wheel, spacer you mention and a type of depth micrometer with a dial indicator mounted to it.
You adjust the lifter setting by changing spacers of varying thicknesses to set the phasing-internal timing of the pumps--and when fitted to the engine the injection timing should be correct due to the offset tang drive.
To advance the timing you need to fit thinner spacers. This effectively lowers the inj pump barrel ports in relation to the plunger--the plunger will close off the barrel port sooner and then start to inject.
To retard the timing thicker spacers are fitted.
When using the degree wheel etc. you measure the lifter dimension and use spacers of the needed thickness to achieve the lifter dimension.
At The Dealer we had a pigeon hole cupboard with all the different sized spacers in so we could quickly select from the available range of sizes.
This lifter setting is not usually done On Engine--I recall only ever doing one 933 that was a hard starter as it was an el-cheapo direct electric start-- without glow plugs--soon sorted it out but what a fiddle to do on engine. This was also my first go at lifter setting on a compact pump.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
But still best to set "on engine" due to wear in timing gears and drive shaft tang. You get all the wear taken care of when turning the engine to TDC. I went out on an old engine that the pump had been set up in the pump room. I had to adjust the lifters .011 to be in time so that it would start and run good.
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Sat, Dec 14, 2013 11:13 PM
bob
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Reply to BillWalter:
But still best to set "on engine" due to wear in timing gears and drive shaft tang. You get all the wear taken care of when turning the engine to TDC. I went out on an old engine that the pump had been set up in the pump room. I had to adjust the lifters .011 to be in time so that it would start and run good.
Bill I think the D333's have a hole that you can see the pointer and the flywheel marks for the 3 TDC's That would allow you to correct for gear and more common Tang Wear. However this should be done with all barrels and plungers out. The springs forcing the lifters down on the cam will move the cam(advance or retard)and cause small errors. Any rough idle problem should start with holding the rack towards the low fuel position and see if it smooths out. The horseshoe damper drive spring between the camshaft and the governor drive gear and the two dowels it seats on get worn, allowing the drive to be sloppy and causing the governor to pulse the rack. The rough running that sounds like a misfire is actually a Bark when the rack pulses forward.
Later Bob
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 12:03 AM
rjh-md
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Reply to bob:
Bill I think the D333's have a hole that you can see the pointer and the flywheel marks for the 3 TDC's That would allow you to correct for gear and more common Tang Wear. However this should be done with all barrels and plungers out. The springs forcing the lifters down on the cam will move the cam(advance or retard)and cause small errors. Any rough idle problem should start with holding the rack towards the low fuel position and see if it smooths out. The horseshoe damper drive spring between the camshaft and the governor drive gear and the two dowels it seats on get worn, allowing the drive to be sloppy and causing the governor to pulse the rack. The rough running that sounds like a misfire is actually a Bark when the rack pulses forward.
Later Bob
Just hope that the flwheel has been installed properly .I had a 5J -D2 that someone had not aligned the marks properly flywheel to crank .
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 4:43 AM
bob
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Reply to rjh-md:
Just hope that the flwheel has been installed properly .I had a 5J -D2 that someone had not aligned the marks properly flywheel to crank .


I believe all of the D330's & D333's had one bolt offset to prevent that. The older engines could be installed wrong if you didn't watch.
Later Bob
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 6:09 AM
djcat
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Reply to bob:


I believe all of the D330's & D333's had one bolt offset to prevent that. The older engines could be installed wrong if you didn't watch.
Later Bob
Thanks guys for your reply's and input. I have the dimensions to make the "gauge" .
Will be interesting to see what I come up with.

cheers djcat
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 6:33 AM
edb
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Reply to djcat:
Thanks guys for your reply's and input. I have the dimensions to make the "gauge" .
Will be interesting to see what I come up with.

cheers djcat
Hi Team,
good advice above.
Been hunting thru my old data and can only come up with the following 73A is Australian built D6C.
It is eqivelent of USA 76A.
If you give, me your Serial No I can give you the exact 76A equivelent so you use the correct timing dimension.
73A D6C's run from 73A1=76A291 upto 73A393=76A4165
Using the data I have in my old Rack Chart Book I find early engines run from 76A1 to 76A881, and later engines 76A882-up.

With engine at TDC for respective cylinder, Early engine timing is 4.228" +/- 0.002"
Ditto , Later engine timing is 4.226" +/- 0.002"

When bringing the engine to TDC if you go too far, turn the engine back at least 45 degrees and come back upto TDC again--this keeps the slack out of the pump drive gear train and your readings accurate.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 10:42 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
good advice above.
Been hunting thru my old data and can only come up with the following 73A is Australian built D6C.
It is eqivelent of USA 76A.
If you give, me your Serial No I can give you the exact 76A equivelent so you use the correct timing dimension.
73A D6C's run from 73A1=76A291 upto 73A393=76A4165
Using the data I have in my old Rack Chart Book I find early engines run from 76A1 to 76A881, and later engines 76A882-up.

With engine at TDC for respective cylinder, Early engine timing is 4.228" +/- 0.002"
Ditto , Later engine timing is 4.226" +/- 0.002"

When bringing the engine to TDC if you go too far, turn the engine back at least 45 degrees and come back upto TDC again--this keeps the slack out of the pump drive gear train and your readings accurate.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
From the 74A/76A Service Manual
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 12:40 PM
djcat
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Reply to Old Magnet:
From the 74A/76A Service Manual
Thanks Eddie and OM.
The serial # is 73A241. OM's specs are the same as what is printed in the manual. I have made the "gauge" ready to go. Just need some time to get back at it!

Cheers djcat
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Sun, Dec 15, 2013 5:34 PM
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