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D318 Will Not Start or Run

D318 Will Not Start or Run

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lnhru
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I finished overhauling my D6 8U motor, but it will not run. It ran fine (with an audible knock on #2) before the rebuild due to a spun rod bearing. I've checked the cam timing and it coincides exactly with the specification in the manual (intake valve down .060 on the 1/6 timing mark at beginning of intake stroke). I also checked the fuel injection pump lifter positions. #3 is at the top of its stroke and #6 is slightly below the top of its stroke when on the 1/6 timing mark. I'm speculating that the accessory gear and pump drive are not timed properly. (I've rebuilt more than 10 gas engines with never a timing problem. This is my first diesel rebuild with a more complex gear train) Can anyone help me? Is my fuel injection improperly timed? My diesel mechanic neighbor has suggested that it is not getting fuel as it does not emit smoke when trying to start.
Lloyd
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Sat, Jul 30, 2016 10:42 PM
rmyram
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sounds like maybe you haven't bled the injectors properly? even if your not cranking on compression they will make a little bit of smoke if the fuel is there.

you only need three things for the engine to run, air, fuel, and properly timed ignition source. in a gas engine that is the spark plug. in a diesel engine that is your compression. are you cranking with a pony or electric starter?
have you double checked your valve lash?

even if your injection pump was out of time, you would have residual fuel in the combustion chamber that would give smoke.

pick the simple stuff first before jumping to major issues, unless you already have and didn't share that info.

when i bled my 9u, i started at the front of the injection pump and open the bleeder until it was free of air, then i moved to the next one back and so on until i had all the air out. they can be a bit of a pain to bleed.
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Sat, Jul 30, 2016 11:02 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to rmyram:
sounds like maybe you haven't bled the injectors properly? even if your not cranking on compression they will make a little bit of smoke if the fuel is there.

you only need three things for the engine to run, air, fuel, and properly timed ignition source. in a gas engine that is the spark plug. in a diesel engine that is your compression. are you cranking with a pony or electric starter?
have you double checked your valve lash?

even if your injection pump was out of time, you would have residual fuel in the combustion chamber that would give smoke.

pick the simple stuff first before jumping to major issues, unless you already have and didn't share that info.

when i bled my 9u, i started at the front of the injection pump and open the bleeder until it was free of air, then i moved to the next one back and so on until i had all the air out. they can be a bit of a pain to bleed.
To begin with, what do you have for fuel pressure when cranking?
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Sat, Jul 30, 2016 11:35 PM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to Old Magnet:
To begin with, what do you have for fuel pressure when cranking?
Do you have fuel at the injector lines where they connect to the injectors? If you crack one while cranking you should get fuel. Did you use air or have a full tank and bleed the air out of the system thru to the injectors? It sounds to me like fuel is not getting to the injectors.
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Sat, Jul 30, 2016 11:44 PM
lnhru
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
Do you have fuel at the injector lines where they connect to the injectors? If you crack one while cranking you should get fuel. Did you use air or have a full tank and bleed the air out of the system thru to the injectors? It sounds to me like fuel is not getting to the injectors.
Thanks for the suggestions. Fuel pressure is definitely on the low side of the gauge. (new fuel filters). Cat does not have a full fuel tank, compressed air was not used to pressurize fuel tank and fuel line, and fuel is present when lines to injector nozzle bodies are cracked. Does anyone know how the [B]fuel pump lifters should look when the crankshaft is on the 1/6 mark with @1 at TDC at the beginning of the intake stroke? # 6 should be on the start of the power stroke. On mine the #3 lifter appears to be fully raised. #6 is 1 or 2 mm lower. Next time I'm at the farm shop I will get a picture of the inside of the fuel injection system. Any help is appreciated. I'm almost ready to pull the front cover to check the fuel injector timing mark alignment, but will hold off.
Lloyd
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Thu, Aug 4, 2016 10:10 AM
ccjersey
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Sounds correct to me.

If you want to confirm, get a depth mic and check them all by removing the pumps from the injection pump housing and checking that all lifters are adjusted to 1.736". Setting the lifter heights usually helps an old engine run better as it compensates for some of the wear in the gears driving the injection pump. A former regular here, SJ said he used to set them a couple thousandths high to compensate for wear on the plunger and lifter yoke where the lifter contacts the base of the plunger. Sounds like a good idea to me as long as none of the pumps or lifters have been replaced so wear is assumed to be even on all of them. Plungers are supposed to be 2.6575-2.6577 new and max wear is 0.005".

Have you confirmed the rack is moving from the fuel shutoff position? You will get fuel flow at the injectors with the rack still at shutoff, but none will be injected. Go ahead and give the throttle a snatch and make sure that movement is carried through the linkage to the crank on the side of the governor and you hear the normal ratcheting sound of the holding mechanism. I would not be afraid of using some starting fluid in it to see if it will hit a few times.

If there is any question as to timing, remember that the camshaft could be off even if the injecton pump/accessory shaft is correct. This is unlikely as the first set of marks to be matched are between the crankshaft gear and large camshaft gear. Then there are marks between small camshaft gear and idler and idler and accessory shaft gear.

As a quick and dirty check on basic engine assembly, you might want to take out the #1injector and put a wire down through the PC chamber to touch the top of the piston and ensure the flywheel is installed correctly. It will bolt up in any position of the 6 bolts and holes. So there are 3 that will put the TDC marks in the correct positions (2 will have all the cylinder numbers wrong though) and 3 that will have the marks 60 degrees off. If the marks are off you can actually re-mark the flywheel to avoid disassembling the clutch etc if you have already got that back on.

Does the pony load up when you flip the decompression off?
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Aug 4, 2016 12:02 PM
cab
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Reply to ccjersey:
Sounds correct to me.

If you want to confirm, get a depth mic and check them all by removing the pumps from the injection pump housing and checking that all lifters are adjusted to 1.736". Setting the lifter heights usually helps an old engine run better as it compensates for some of the wear in the gears driving the injection pump. A former regular here, SJ said he used to set them a couple thousandths high to compensate for wear on the plunger and lifter yoke where the lifter contacts the base of the plunger. Sounds like a good idea to me as long as none of the pumps or lifters have been replaced so wear is assumed to be even on all of them. Plungers are supposed to be 2.6575-2.6577 new and max wear is 0.005".

Have you confirmed the rack is moving from the fuel shutoff position? You will get fuel flow at the injectors with the rack still at shutoff, but none will be injected. Go ahead and give the throttle a snatch and make sure that movement is carried through the linkage to the crank on the side of the governor and you hear the normal ratcheting sound of the holding mechanism. I would not be afraid of using some starting fluid in it to see if it will hit a few times.

If there is any question as to timing, remember that the camshaft could be off even if the injecton pump/accessory shaft is correct. This is unlikely as the first set of marks to be matched are between the crankshaft gear and large camshaft gear. Then there are marks between small camshaft gear and idler and idler and accessory shaft gear.

As a quick and dirty check on basic engine assembly, you might want to take out the #1injector and put a wire down through the PC chamber to touch the top of the piston and ensure the flywheel is installed correctly. It will bolt up in any position of the 6 bolts and holes. So there are 3 that will put the TDC marks in the correct positions (2 will have all the cylinder numbers wrong though) and 3 that will have the marks 60 degrees off. If the marks are off you can actually re-mark the flywheel to avoid disassembling the clutch etc if you have already got that back on.

Does the pony load up when you flip the decompression off?
Lloyd:

Your machine may have an oval inspection plate on front of timing gear cover.

With #1 at TDC / compression stroke and #6 in overlap you can take a strong light and a cell phone and take a picture that should clearly show the timing marks on the gears lined up.
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Thu, Aug 4, 2016 12:24 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to cab:
Lloyd:

Your machine may have an oval inspection plate on front of timing gear cover.

With #1 at TDC / compression stroke and #6 in overlap you can take a strong light and a cell phone and take a picture that should clearly show the timing marks on the gears lined up.
Don't have that feature on the D318.
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Thu, Aug 4, 2016 11:22 PM
lnhru
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Don't have that feature on the D318.
D318 would not start. Its been months. Finally got the time and motivation to do some work on the old Cat. Previously, I had verified the Cam timing was correct using a dial gauge and specs from the manual. 3 hours to remove rad and front gearcase cover. What did I find? All marks are aligned as per the manual. However, with #1 piston at TDC on compression stroke, the #1 fuel injection lifter is approximately .25 inch below the top of its stroke. I didn't put a dial gauge on the lifter, but it is somewhat below the top of its stroke. From what I can discover in the manual, the fuel pump lifter should be at the top of its stroke when the piston is at TDC on compression. Am I mistaken in my understanding? Can someone clarify this for me? D318 specs indicate that fuel should be injected 15 degrees advanced so the fuel injection lifter should top out 15 degrees BTDC. Where am I going wrong? This is the first diesel engine I have tried to rebuild.

Lloyd
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Sat, Feb 18, 2017 9:41 AM
ccjersey
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You got it wrong. The injection pump plunger continues to rise after TDC. The 1.736" dimension of each fuel pump lifter is set with the corresponding piston at TDC on compression stroke which sets the 15 degrees BTDC BEGINNING of injection. A second check that the lifter was set at the correct point of crankshaft/fuel pump camshaft rotation is that each one that is set continues to rise as the engine is rotated past TDC of compression stroke. If one was set and DOES NOT rise as the engine is rotated past TDC........, STOP! Go back about 60 degrees and lower the lifter adjustment so that you do not break something as that piston (eventually) comes up to TDC of compression stroke for that cylinder.

An engine that uses mechanical injector pumps CANNOT inject all the fuel instantaneously. Instead the engine must rotate through some radial distance to drive the injection pump plunger through its complete travel. The actual length of injection is shorter or longer depending on the rack position.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sat, Feb 18, 2017 10:07 AM
oldbeek
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
Do you have fuel at the injector lines where they connect to the injectors? If you crack one while cranking you should get fuel. Did you use air or have a full tank and bleed the air out of the system thru to the injectors? It sounds to me like fuel is not getting to the injectors.

I found a trick to pressurize the fuel tank. I use my shop vac with the hose blowing. Just stuff the hose in the filler and wrap it with a shop towel. Just the right amount of pressure with lots of volume.
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Sat, Feb 18, 2017 11:33 AM
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