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D311 PTO /generator build

D311 PTO /generator build

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mog5858
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hi guys i pick up a D311 PTO awhile back and it's missing the fuel transfer up. will the fuel transfer pump from a 5J800 D2 parts cat work on the D311 7S8112? from my d311 book show it to be 7B6855 fuel transfer pump group.
not really sure how meany hours are on the old girl but it was on a car crusher at one time i was told. the next thing i looking for input on putting a generator on the back end. the generator i got run's a little faster then the motor is rated at. 1800 rpm gen and the D311 is only 1500 rpm and 49 hp. the generator is 16.9 KVA 70 amp 120/240 single phase. will modern day voltage regulator make up for running at a lower rpm with just less amp output. well i know we all like pics so her you go.

[img]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/mog5858/IMG_0190_zpszp4wtsbf.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/mog5858/IMG_0243_zpsibioyqfm.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/mog5858/IMG_0242_zpsdgs0kvwj.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/mog5858/IMG_0245_zpsphnjk3kd.jpg[/img]
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 4:54 AM
drujinin
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Running at 1500rpm will give you 50 hertz! You will need to turn the governor up to 1800rpm to get 60 hertz. If you know for a fact that in its previous life it ran at 1500rpm. If the Stamford is a 2 Bearing Generator(bearing at each end) you could put a speed changer, (belt pulleys or gear box) in between but it would be a lot of work. You should have less issue just turning up engine rpm.
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 5:54 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to drujinin:
Running at 1500rpm will give you 50 hertz! You will need to turn the governor up to 1800rpm to get 60 hertz. If you know for a fact that in its previous life it ran at 1500rpm. If the Stamford is a 2 Bearing Generator(bearing at each end) you could put a speed changer, (belt pulleys or gear box) in between but it would be a lot of work. You should have less issue just turning up engine rpm.
Getting to 1800 is going to take a different governor group and governor spring plus change the rack setting.
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 6:19 AM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Getting to 1800 is going to take a different governor group and governor spring plus change the rack setting.
Martin is a pretty savey welder and machinest. I'll bet he can whip up a mount for a belt or gear drive without to much issue.
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 6:35 AM
neil
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
Martin is a pretty savey welder and machinest. I'll bet he can whip up a mount for a belt or gear drive without to much issue.
Hi Martin,
If you want direct drive, then you need to change out the governor group for an 1800 rpm one, or put a 6-pole generator on it and run it at 1200rpm (and take a corresponding drop in output). Like Jeff writes, might be easy enough to put a couple of pulleys on to get your speed. By the way, it looks like the spring-loaded seal cap from the old fuel transfer pump input shaft is still stuck in the hole (no spring but possibly the two seal halves still there)
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 7:30 AM
Jack
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Reply to neil:
Hi Martin,
If you want direct drive, then you need to change out the governor group for an 1800 rpm one, or put a 6-pole generator on it and run it at 1200rpm (and take a corresponding drop in output). Like Jeff writes, might be easy enough to put a couple of pulleys on to get your speed. By the way, it looks like the spring-loaded seal cap from the old fuel transfer pump input shaft is still stuck in the hole (no spring but possibly the two seal halves still there)
My induction generator needs over 1800 RPM to produce max output. It is a 25 HP and runs up to name-plate amps and a little over--78-80 amps depending on what's on the line, temp, etc. I don't pay much attention to RPM on this outfit. It's wattage that tells the story once it's on line.

Here's the rub. If that engine has a governor group similar to the ones in crawlers (mine is a rebuilt D2 5U, not a D311 unit), it's going to speed up about 30% over your operating speed if it should go off line. Overdrive the generator so that you will be speeding w/o full load at a slower speed.

I run at about 1500 or so on the engine; it jumps up to over 1900 rpm if there is a blip in the power demand, such as a momentary loss in the grid. I would prefer it didn't go that fast. Rules on distributed generation require that it stay off line for five minutes before it resets. If you are running 1900 with a 30% governor lag, you will be up to 2470 or so on a blip, and be there for at least five minutes. I'd say to avoid that. Find out what your governor is going to do before you commit to expensive drive parts.

I overdrive with a four-belt B section band on sheaves that are good size--about 10" PD on the smaller (driven) one. It holds the 19 kW load indefinately without heating up, runs very smooth, helps take the radial vibration out of the drive and has been adjusted just once since new. It's in operation for it's third season now, no problems. Make no mistake about it, a four-cylinder diesel will give you a bunch or radial vibration even with that 100#+ flywheel.

This has been an adventure. Screw your hat down tight, grab a handful of mane and enjoy the ride!
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 12:53 PM
drujinin
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Reply to Jack:
My induction generator needs over 1800 RPM to produce max output. It is a 25 HP and runs up to name-plate amps and a little over--78-80 amps depending on what's on the line, temp, etc. I don't pay much attention to RPM on this outfit. It's wattage that tells the story once it's on line.

Here's the rub. If that engine has a governor group similar to the ones in crawlers (mine is a rebuilt D2 5U, not a D311 unit), it's going to speed up about 30% over your operating speed if it should go off line. Overdrive the generator so that you will be speeding w/o full load at a slower speed.

I run at about 1500 or so on the engine; it jumps up to over 1900 rpm if there is a blip in the power demand, such as a momentary loss in the grid. I would prefer it didn't go that fast. Rules on distributed generation require that it stay off line for five minutes before it resets. If you are running 1900 with a 30% governor lag, you will be up to 2470 or so on a blip, and be there for at least five minutes. I'd say to avoid that. Find out what your governor is going to do before you commit to expensive drive parts.

I overdrive with a four-belt B section band on sheaves that are good size--about 10" PD on the smaller (driven) one. It holds the 19 kW load indefinately without heating up, runs very smooth, helps take the radial vibration out of the drive and has been adjusted just once since new. It's in operation for it's third season now, no problems. Make no mistake about it, a four-cylinder diesel will give you a bunch or radial vibration even with that 100#+ flywheel.

This has been an adventure. Screw your hat down tight, grab a handful of mane and enjoy the ride!
Isochronous verses Induction. There is a difference between the two types of generators. That Stamford is an Isochronous Generator so it will need to turn at 1800rpm to get 60hz.
Jacks unit runs against the Grid, hence an Induction works good for his application. In Mog's situation, he looses Grid which is his reason for needing an Isochroous Source running in Island mode.
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 7:20 PM
ccjersey
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That is true, but the governor overshoot is still a problem that needs considering. A package generator set from the factory would have an overspeed safety switch of some sort.

The D311 he has is set up for 1500 rpm, so presumably it can handle a sudden loss of load when running under full load at 1500. A set of pulleys and belts makes a good way to connect an engine to a 2 bearing alternator. I have a D333 and a D311 that are belted to jackshafts to operate stationary pto driven implements. Both have B belts that have been on there for many years with only an occasional retensioning. To further reduce side loading you could go to a cog belt drive if you wanted.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Nov 9, 2015 10:03 PM
mog5858
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Reply to ccjersey:
That is true, but the governor overshoot is still a problem that needs considering. A package generator set from the factory would have an overspeed safety switch of some sort.

The D311 he has is set up for 1500 rpm, so presumably it can handle a sudden loss of load when running under full load at 1500. A set of pulleys and belts makes a good way to connect an engine to a 2 bearing alternator. I have a D333 and a D311 that are belted to jackshafts to operate stationary pto driven implements. Both have B belts that have been on there for many years with only an occasional retensioning. To further reduce side loading you could go to a cog belt drive if you wanted.
thanks boy's for all the info. generator was a auction sale deal so it was never hook up to this D311. thanks OM for the info on the governor i that was the info i was looking for. was not sure if i could just turn it up or if i need new insides. maybe i will just get it running and get a nice skid under and see what others generator i got that would be more suited how meany KW can i run with 49 HP? i don't really have a need for it "yet" lol. might work good to power my saw mill but then i would have to go logging to get some logs and well then Roger with think i need to hire him to do my logging.
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Tue, Nov 10, 2015 5:49 AM
BobPV15
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Reply to mog5858:
thanks boy's for all the info. generator was a auction sale deal so it was never hook up to this D311. thanks OM for the info on the governor i that was the info i was looking for. was not sure if i could just turn it up or if i need new insides. maybe i will just get it running and get a nice skid under and see what others generator i got that would be more suited how meany KW can i run with 49 HP? i don't really have a need for it "yet" lol. might work good to power my saw mill but then i would have to go logging to get some logs and well then Roger with think i need to hire him to do my logging.
Your 49 Hp would handle a 35 KW generator at your rated speed of 1500 rpm.
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Tue, Nov 10, 2015 6:06 AM
drujinin
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Reply to BobPV15:
Your 49 Hp would handle a 35 KW generator at your rated speed of 1500 rpm.
Is typically 20% over rated RPM. Its not the engines that can't handle it but the windings in the armature that might fly out and lock into the stator if left to run overspeed for too long. There is a lot of centrifugal force on the windings!
Check the Stamford website about belt driving that unit as you could conceivably make the speed change through pulley selection.
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Tue, Nov 10, 2015 7:38 AM
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