ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
D2 - Stuck diesel - suggestions to get her turning

D2 - Stuck diesel - suggestions to get her turning

Showing 1 to 10 of 27 results
1
Arthropod
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Arthropod
Posts: 302
Thank you received: 0
So my latest addition to the flock is a D2-5U s/n 10502. Complete machine with CAT blade, except missing some minor pieces. Pony is free. Diesel is stuck. I had posted earlier about the magneto, but still haven't remembered to write down the mag's part number. I think I have the mag back together correctly. It sparks. Haven't tried to start the pony yet. Want to get the diesel free.

So, what methods have people used to free a stuck diesel? I don't know its history. It's probably been stuck a while, but it looks like maybe because someone had the breather off the intake. The stack was covered. So, about a week ago when I obtained the machine I squirted various fluids into each cylinder. AT fluid, some PB Blaster and also some Deep Creep. I have put a bar inside the clutch housing and pried lightly on the clutch to see if the flywheel will turn. It doesn't...yet. So, short of removing the head, any suggestions on how to attack this problem? I don't mind removing the head if that is the best way to go. My main problem is figuring out where to apply pressure to see if the engine will turn.
Thanks.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:15 AM
zootownjeepguy
Offline
Send a private message to zootownjeepguy
Posts: 759
Thank you received: 0
My D2 was stuck when I got it too. Although the exhaust was covered and the whole machine had a tarp over it, water still found it's way into #2 & #3 cylinders (not anti-freeze luckily). That water also helped all the valves & seats rust away to the point that the head needed a major ($$$$$) rebuild. I know it's a lot of extra work but I would recommend pulling the head, just to see what's going on in there. It's also good to check the condition of the cylinder walls and valves while you're at it. Another good reason for pulling the head off a stuck engine is so you can apply pressure directly to the top of the pistons, if (hopefully) the crank is NOT at top dead center. I made a strap out of some channel iron that bolted onto a couple head studs and I put a wooden block on top of one cylinder and a small bottle jack between the channel iron & wooden block. Worked great, but put the fire out first (see below)!

If you're pulling the head, a little fire is probably the best method for "unstucking" an engine. Put some Diesel or ATF in each cylinder and a little gasoline and light a fire in each cylinder. Let it burn for a half hour or so and that'll heat up the cylinders and really help loosen the engine.

Good luck, and hopefully yours won't be as bad as mine.👍
Rich Salvaggio
D2 5U9917
'46 Willys CJ2A Farm Jeep, '39 Buick sedan, '49 International KB-7, '37 Allis Chalmers WC, Cushman Scooter(s)
Antique garden tractors & outboard motors
Other rusty old junk comes & goes without warning.

The 2 most useful tools to have in your shop are a Crystal Ball and a Magic Wand
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:39 AM
Bill Glenn
Offline
Member
Send a private message to Bill Glenn
Posts: 324
Thank you received: 0
Arthropod,
I don’t think there is ever a straight / clear answer for that question.

I’ll give you a (my) short story on this… My D2 was stuck when I got it also.

The main clutch was stuck also.

I separated / hoisted the diesel from the bell housing to fix the clutch.

While I had the diesel separated from the rest of the tractor - I made up this 10ft long bar – with lugs that fit into the flywheel teeth.

That way I could really pull on it and not have to worry about harming anything.

I did get it to move – and then turn. But it was pretty “crunchy”.

I did eventually take the head off – and when I did I found LOTS of rust & crud.

I don’t know how rusty these things can get and still run OK after being broken free.

I can’t imagine I would ever have had a decent running machine in that condition - had I tried to start it.

The rings were even rusted fast in the ring grooves.

If yours is stuck and you managed to free it up externally without a lot of trouble – I would say go ahead and try and start it.

Otherwise tear it down.

Bill Glenn
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:04 AM
deetwocat
Offline
Send a private message to deetwocat
Posts: 86
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Bill Glenn:
Arthropod,
I don’t think there is ever a straight / clear answer for that question.

I’ll give you a (my) short story on this… My D2 was stuck when I got it also.

The main clutch was stuck also.

I separated / hoisted the diesel from the bell housing to fix the clutch.

While I had the diesel separated from the rest of the tractor - I made up this 10ft long bar – with lugs that fit into the flywheel teeth.

That way I could really pull on it and not have to worry about harming anything.

I did get it to move – and then turn. But it was pretty “crunchy”.

I did eventually take the head off – and when I did I found LOTS of rust & crud.

I don’t know how rusty these things can get and still run OK after being broken free.

I can’t imagine I would ever have had a decent running machine in that condition - had I tried to start it.

The rings were even rusted fast in the ring grooves.

If yours is stuck and you managed to free it up externally without a lot of trouble – I would say go ahead and try and start it.

Otherwise tear it down.

Bill Glenn
It has been for me at least the best bet to take the head off then you will be able to see whitch cylinder is stuck also get some diesel oil on top of all pistions in the morning if some cylinder stills have oil on top that is the stuck cylinder plus the rings probaly stuck to pistion.some guys swear by coke cola never had any luck with it but taste better than diesel.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52 AM
drujinin
Offline
Send a private message to drujinin
Posts: 3,852
Thank you received: 1
Reply to deetwocat:
It has been for me at least the best bet to take the head off then you will be able to see whitch cylinder is stuck also get some diesel oil on top of all pistions in the morning if some cylinder stills have oil on top that is the stuck cylinder plus the rings probaly stuck to pistion.some guys swear by coke cola never had any luck with it but taste better than diesel.
The only one I never had to pull the head off from was "Flash Rusted", it ran and did an OK job for its purpose but eventually the compression got worse and harder to start. I pull heads, that way you can check the condition of all the parts that will wreck the engine if they are in poor condition and fail. (drop a valve while running and see who destroys what!)
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55 PM
ol Grump
Offline
Send a private message to ol Grump
Posts: 1,077
Thank you received: 0
Reply to drujinin:
The only one I never had to pull the head off from was "Flash Rusted", it ran and did an OK job for its purpose but eventually the compression got worse and harder to start. I pull heads, that way you can check the condition of all the parts that will wreck the engine if they are in poor condition and fail. (drop a valve while running and see who destroys what!)
I've freed up several "frozen" engines by pulling the head and finding out which cylinder was rusted up, then pouring in several ounces of diesel, tossing in a small rag and lighting it. After it's burned all the diesel, let the piston cool to body temp and put a block of wood slightly smaller than the bore on top of the piston and whacking it gently 😆with a 12 lb molecular realignment instrument, also called a beater.

As soon as there's movement, I start turning the crank to get the piston down a ways and use a flap wheel to get most of the rust off the cylinder walls and clean the crud out. I use a mix of either acetone and two stroke oil or Coleman fuel and two stroke oil as a "loose juice" and start turning the engine over by hand. If the heat and cool cycle doesn't work the first time, try again.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 8, 2011 10:27 PM
neil
Offline
Moderator
Admin
Send a private message to neil
Posts: 6,998
Thank you received: 22
Reply to ol Grump:
I've freed up several "frozen" engines by pulling the head and finding out which cylinder was rusted up, then pouring in several ounces of diesel, tossing in a small rag and lighting it. After it's burned all the diesel, let the piston cool to body temp and put a block of wood slightly smaller than the bore on top of the piston and whacking it gently 😆with a 12 lb molecular realignment instrument, also called a beater.

As soon as there's movement, I start turning the crank to get the piston down a ways and use a flap wheel to get most of the rust off the cylinder walls and clean the crud out. I use a mix of either acetone and two stroke oil or Coleman fuel and two stroke oil as a "loose juice" and start turning the engine over by hand. If the heat and cool cycle doesn't work the first time, try again.
Ol Grump - what's a flap wheel (and do you have a photo)? I might need to do the same to my D2
Cheers,
Neil.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 9, 2011 7:29 AM
drujinin
Offline
Send a private message to drujinin
Posts: 3,852
Thank you received: 1
Reply to neil:
Ol Grump - what's a flap wheel (and do you have a photo)? I might need to do the same to my D2
Cheers,
Neil.
is a mandrel with short strips of sandpaper attached to it for use on a power drill. I see them all the time in the wood finishing area of your local Home Depot.
Jeff
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 9, 2011 7:33 AM
ol Grump
Offline
Send a private message to ol Grump
Posts: 1,077
Thank you received: 0
Reply to drujinin:
is a mandrel with short strips of sandpaper attached to it for use on a power drill. I see them all the time in the wood finishing area of your local Home Depot.
Jeff
http://www.3m.com/product/information/coated-abrasive-flap-pg-wheel.html

There are the ones I use. .I'd guess the ones for wood would work too but as I'm not a sliver picker😆 I use the ones for metal. 80 grit seems to work well without getting too loaded up.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 9, 2011 9:25 PM
64farmboy
Offline
Member
Send a private message to 64farmboy
Posts: 554
Thank you received: 0
Reply to ol Grump:
http://www.3m.com/product/information/coated-abrasive-flap-pg-wheel.html

There are the ones I use. .I'd guess the ones for wood would work too but as I'm not a sliver picker😆 I use the ones for metal. 80 grit seems to work well without getting too loaded up.
I welded up a cradle out of square tubing attaching it to the head bolts, machined an aluminum plug to 3.950 diameter and put light pressure on the piston with a small bottle jack, filled the cylinders with some PB and marvel mystery oil. I let it soak and kept adding a little pressure and it broke lose. I then took my cylinder hone with progressively finer stone and cleaned the bores up. I ended up pulling the pan, changing the rings as well and having the head rebuilt with Cat valves. I'm glad I did the rings as when I pulled the pistons I had stuck and broken rings.
Dennie
Restored 1970 ford tractor,1931 Model A PU streetrod, lifted 1978 F150, 1971 VW bug, antique chain saws
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 9, 2011 10:24 PM
ferraridoctor
Offline
Send a private message to ferraridoctor
Posts: 47
Thank you received: 0
Reply to 64farmboy:
I welded up a cradle out of square tubing attaching it to the head bolts, machined an aluminum plug to 3.950 diameter and put light pressure on the piston with a small bottle jack, filled the cylinders with some PB and marvel mystery oil. I let it soak and kept adding a little pressure and it broke lose. I then took my cylinder hone with progressively finer stone and cleaned the bores up. I ended up pulling the pan, changing the rings as well and having the head rebuilt with Cat valves. I'm glad I did the rings as when I pulled the pistons I had stuck and broken rings.
Dennie
The reason you mite use Coca Cola to loosen the pistons is because it has phosphoric acid in it to keep the carbonation from going flat. Google Phosphoric Acid and you will find that it is used as a rust remover/converter. We use it in the automotive industry to remove rust from parts before painting. It will change the rust to a black phosphate coating that can be removed or left to prevent further rusting. Using it in an engine will work to breakup the rust in the cylinders and around the rings but it can not be left for an extended period of time because being an acid it will keep eating on the cylinder walls until they are damaged. I remember in High School Science class we put a large nail in a bottle of Coca Cola and a few weeks later it was gone.

Chuck
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:00 AM
Showing 1 to 10 of 27 results
1
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Cromford Steam Rally

Chapter Two

| Highacres Farm, Dewey Lane, Brackenfield, Derbyshire DE55 6DB, UK

The Century of Caterpillar

| Elkader, 203 Johnson St, Elkader, IA 52043, USA

100 YEARS OF CATERPILLAR IN TASMANIA

Chapter Nineteen

| 2 Winkleigh Rd, Exeter TAS 7275
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I also joined a year ago. had been on here a couple of times as a non-member and found the info very helpful so I got a one year subscription (not very expensive at all) to try it out. I really like all the resources on here so I just got a three year. I think its a very small price for what you can get out of this site."
-Jason N

Join Today!