D2 Starting Gear

NZCat

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Hello Guys

My D2 is still "unlatching" despite adjusting the pinion latches. After a long browse through previous posts I figure I have either worn latches or a worn starter pinion control (or both). Is there any way to figure out which it is ??

If it is the starter pinion control, how does one go about getting it out, I have looked in my servicemans manual, and I'm either blind, stupid or both, cause I can't find the reference to it.

Cheers - Foster

Foster Price
Southland, NZ

D2-5U #10200

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ol Grump

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Foster. .I hope someone else on here can help diagnose the problem. What it almost sounds like to me is the button on the end of the pinion is worn and not allowing full engagement to start with.To tear into it can/may be a pain. If. .IF you're lucky, you can possibly pull the pinion/ clutch control from the bell housing without taking anything further apart but that may depend on which model you have. I just went out and looked at my 5J and it looks like to get the pinion/ clutch out, I'd have to pull the injector pump first to get the needed room to slide it forward far enough to take it out. Either that or pull the engine and work in it while it's still in the bell housing. But then, I'm not familiar with all models of the D2 so there may be easier ways. I"m sure someone else on this board can offer more help.

Good luck,
Paul

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timb

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Reply to ol Grump:

Foster. .I hope someone else on here can help diagnose the problem. What it almost sounds like to me is the button on the end of the pinion is worn and not allowing full engagement to start with.To tear into it can/may be a pain. If. .IF you're lucky, you can possibly pull the pinion/ clutch control from the bell housing without taking anything further apart but that may depend on which model you have. I just went out and looked at my 5J and it looks like to get the pinion/ clutch out, I'd have to pull the injector pump first to get the needed room to slide it forward far enough to take it out. Either that or pull the engine and work in it while it's still in the bell housing. But then, I'm not familiar with all models of the D2 so there may be easier ways. I"m sure someone else on this board can offer more help.

Good luck,
Paul

Foster,
On my D2 mine it was not unlatching it was not engaging. I couldn't lift up the lever it was stuck or jammed. After doing everything I could think of I had to take out the pinion /clutch out. What happened was the bolts that hold in the sleeve assy. on to the end of the shaft fell out and the sleeve was loose on the shaft. When I took the pinion/ clutch out the sleeve fell into the flywheel housing. What a bear to get it out I could bearly reach it. I'm no pro at Cat's but I am a wrench. I don't know if thats your problem. But to take the pinion/ clutch out you have to lift the pony up a few inches (fun fun fun) take the cover off the end of the pump. I got a rebuilt pinion/ clutch assy. ( I guess thats what you call it) and it works great.
Now I'm just waiting for the next thing to brake !!!!!!!!

Good luck !!!

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TerryinNorCal

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Reply to timb:

Foster,
On my D2 mine it was not unlatching it was not engaging. I couldn't lift up the lever it was stuck or jammed. After doing everything I could think of I had to take out the pinion /clutch out. What happened was the bolts that hold in the sleeve assy. on to the end of the shaft fell out and the sleeve was loose on the shaft. When I took the pinion/ clutch out the sleeve fell into the flywheel housing. What a bear to get it out I could bearly reach it. I'm no pro at Cat's but I am a wrench. I don't know if thats your problem. But to take the pinion/ clutch out you have to lift the pony up a few inches (fun fun fun) take the cover off the end of the pump. I got a rebuilt pinion/ clutch assy. ( I guess thats what you call it) and it works great.
Now I'm just waiting for the next thing to brake !!!!!!!!

Good luck !!!

To pull the pinion assy out, you will need to remove the governor housing from the injectoe pump. Once that is removed, remove the four bolts holding the pinion assy to the flywheel housing, then pry/push/pull/wiggle the pinion assy off. There is an o-ring sealing it to the housing, and if you are too rough with the assy, I have seen the engagement end of the housing crack or break at the "cut-out". Once out, you will be able to fix your problem. Parts are still avail., but the cast piece that holds the latches is $$$. Good Luck!

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Old Magnet

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Reply to TerryinNorCal:

To pull the pinion assy out, you will need to remove the governor housing from the injectoe pump. Once that is removed, remove the four bolts holding the pinion assy to the flywheel housing, then pry/push/pull/wiggle the pinion assy off. There is an o-ring sealing it to the housing, and if you are too rough with the assy, I have seen the engagement end of the housing crack or break at the "cut-out". Once out, you will be able to fix your problem. Parts are still avail., but the cast piece that holds the latches is $$$. Good Luck!

By "unlatching" do you mean it disengages to soon or will not engage????

Most common source of problem is a bent pinion engagement arm (from holding/forcing pinion to stay engaged) Check end clearance, should only be about 1/8 in or so.

The manuals don't show anything on removal of engagement arm assembly but it is retained by the engagement lever and shaft.

To remove clutch/pinion engagement assembly you do not have to remove governor or pump.......just the back cover of the governor.....also remove the engine cover bolt closest to the assembly. Pinion needs to be engaged to shorten overall length for removal. Also remove the pony motor and reseal. The raise one end is a joke.

The other most common problem I have found is that the "stop" that the latches engage is not always indexed properly so the latches never have a chance of engaging correctly for very long.

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ol Grump

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Reply to Old Magnet:

By "unlatching" do you mean it disengages to soon or will not engage????

Most common source of problem is a bent pinion engagement arm (from holding/forcing pinion to stay engaged) Check end clearance, should only be about 1/8 in or so.

The manuals don't show anything on removal of engagement arm assembly but it is retained by the engagement lever and shaft.

To remove clutch/pinion engagement assembly you do not have to remove governor or pump.......just the back cover of the governor.....also remove the engine cover bolt closest to the assembly. Pinion needs to be engaged to shorten overall length for removal. Also remove the pony motor and reseal. The raise one end is a joke.

The other most common problem I have found is that the "stop" that the latches engage is not always indexed properly so the latches never have a chance of engaging correctly for very long.

Ah HAH. .I kind'a figgered there might be an easier way to skin that particular cat! Engaging the clutch to shorten the overall length makes sense. .I hadn't thought of that earlier.
Hope you find the problem and "get 'er done"

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Old Magnet

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Reply to ol Grump:

Ah HAH. .I kind'a figgered there might be an easier way to skin that particular cat! Engaging the clutch to shorten the overall length makes sense. .I hadn't thought of that earlier.
Hope you find the problem and "get 'er done"

Forgot one step🙄 🙄
You also need to remove the pony clutch cover for clearance on the "U" models.

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Denis

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Reply to Old Magnet:

By "unlatching" do you mean it disengages to soon or will not engage????

Most common source of problem is a bent pinion engagement arm (from holding/forcing pinion to stay engaged) Check end clearance, should only be about 1/8 in or so.

The manuals don't show anything on removal of engagement arm assembly but it is retained by the engagement lever and shaft.

To remove clutch/pinion engagement assembly you do not have to remove governor or pump.......just the back cover of the governor.....also remove the engine cover bolt closest to the assembly. Pinion needs to be engaged to shorten overall length for removal. Also remove the pony motor and reseal. The raise one end is a joke.

The other most common problem I have found is that the "stop" that the latches engage is not always indexed properly so the latches never have a chance of engaging correctly for very long.

D6 9U starter pinion shaft bent

"Most common source of problem is a bent pinion engagement arm (from holding/forcing pinion to stay engaged) Check end clearance, should only be about 1/8 in or so."

Hi, so glad I found this forum.

Yours is the closest posting on this forum to the problem I have... I always had to use force to engage it, and had to hold it in placed. While pulling on the engagement arm there was a grinding gears noise that worried me, (how normal is this?, it had been doing this forever so I assumed it was normal because more experienced people saw this and failed to mentioned it could be fixed with a simple clutch adjustment!!!), until one time nothing, no movement, and any amount of force on the engagement arm would stall the pony engine.

Editing post Sept 27 2011
[Found the answer to that question in another discussion, thanks here it is "If your startor pinion is grinding excessively your brake cluch work bad or too worn and for the cluch adjustement you need to remove the small plate and with a screw driver turne the cluch collar until the lock pin can be reach and angage the startor pinion and with your screw driver pry out the lock pin and tighten by turning the collar clockwise until the lock pine drops into the next hole."]

So thanks to this forum I managed to get it out and I took the pinion clutch to a Finning shop for repairs. They don't seem very experienced with this problem on an old model. The small friendly old timers shop closed doors a few years ago.

His 3 questions are:

1: What may have caused it to bend, is there another problem that needs to be addressed first? [Edit post Sept 28, the answer most likely is that the excessive grinding bent the shaft over time, need to fix the brake/clutch, any comments? I would feel better if that was confirmed]
2: Is it worth fixing rather than doing the electric start conversion, will parts be available?
3: It appears a part that would be at the end of the shaft is missing...? Did it fall down and would have to be retrieved ? [This question answered also, found the end part, but unsure about a missing broken bolt that may have been there, will it cause problems now that it may be down in the oil below, unsuccessful at magnet fishing anything else so far.]

Edit Sept 28
[My question is: Once I get the clutch fixed and put it back in there, and assuming I make sure it is adjusted to prevent that excessive grinding and use of force, are there other reasons that peoples know of that would cause it to bend again and therefore cause a big disappointment and loss of time and money? The diesel engine turns fine, I found out by pulling the fan belt...]

This D6 is/has been awesome for us to clear snow in the winter, without it we could not live on our isolated farm year round. I Live Terrace, British Columbia, and the fences get buried under wet snow, it's been an unexpected and rewarding challenge to learn about the D6... I am determined to keep it running as long as I can.

Denis

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