ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
D2 Pony Pinion Gear Rusted to Shaft

D2 Pony Pinion Gear Rusted to Shaft

Showing 1 to 9 of 9 results
Tim Stangeland
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Tim Stangeland
Posts: 8
Thank you received: 0
Went to start my 3J D2 and couldn't get the pony pinion gear to engage flywheel. Pinion gear appears to be rusted to shaft. I am still dealing with water issues as this tractor was submerged in a flood 2 years ago.
My question is how does one free up a stuck pony pinion gear? Worked fine last fall. I have taken the oiler cover off the top of the bell housing, but can't reach or see anything through that small opening.
Any and all suggestions would be most appreciated.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Mar 22, 2011 1:47 AM
Arthropod
Offline
Send a private message to Arthropod
Posts: 302
Thank you received: 0
I would remove the round access cover (by the left brake pedal) and spray some liquid wrench all over everything regarding the pinion. You should be able to take a mirror and light to look through the that oiler hole and examine things. I don't think you are going to hurt anything if you took a pry bar (crowbar) and pried on the end of the pinion to see if you can get it to move. Just take it easy. Better to pry with a bar than to slam on the pinion engagement lever. Worse case, just remove the pinion and repair it. You just have to raise the pony a bit so that it's gear isn't blocking the pinion sliding out. And remove the end cover off the pinion housing (the cover at the end near the governor) or you'll never have space to get the pinion to come out.

One of my D2's will sometimes have trouble with the pinion engaging. But if I start the pony, all of a sudden I can engage the pinion. It won't budge when the pony is stopped. Not sure what's up with it. Doesn't do it every time. I haven't removed the pinion to check it out. I guess when the pony is running, it has the pinion spinning and maybe the latches loosen a little bit, helping it move.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Mar 22, 2011 7:40 PM
Tim Stangeland
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Tim Stangeland
Posts: 8
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Arthropod:
I would remove the round access cover (by the left brake pedal) and spray some liquid wrench all over everything regarding the pinion. You should be able to take a mirror and light to look through the that oiler hole and examine things. I don't think you are going to hurt anything if you took a pry bar (crowbar) and pried on the end of the pinion to see if you can get it to move. Just take it easy. Better to pry with a bar than to slam on the pinion engagement lever. Worse case, just remove the pinion and repair it. You just have to raise the pony a bit so that it's gear isn't blocking the pinion sliding out. And remove the end cover off the pinion housing (the cover at the end near the governor) or you'll never have space to get the pinion to come out.

One of my D2's will sometimes have trouble with the pinion engaging. But if I start the pony, all of a sudden I can engage the pinion. It won't budge when the pony is stopped. Not sure what's up with it. Doesn't do it every time. I haven't removed the pinion to check it out. I guess when the pony is running, it has the pinion spinning and maybe the latches loosen a little bit, helping it move.
Arthropod,
I did take a paint spray gun and spray a mixture of 50% diesel, 50% automatic transmission fluid through the opening at the top of the bellhousing up into the left top corner where that pinion should be located. So far no luck in breaking the pinion loose. I did use your suggestion and start the pony to see if I could get engagement. No luck with that. Pulling on the pinion lever I get a little bumping of the gear teeth, but not enough to engage the main engine. Pull the pony clutch lever back and gears stop contacting as they should, but no engagement. Will keep trying your suggestions and get it one of these days.
I did use a shopvac and blew air into the bellhousing to dry everything up.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:47 AM
Arthropod
Offline
Send a private message to Arthropod
Posts: 302
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Tim Stangeland:
Arthropod,
I did take a paint spray gun and spray a mixture of 50% diesel, 50% automatic transmission fluid through the opening at the top of the bellhousing up into the left top corner where that pinion should be located. So far no luck in breaking the pinion loose. I did use your suggestion and start the pony to see if I could get engagement. No luck with that. Pulling on the pinion lever I get a little bumping of the gear teeth, but not enough to engage the main engine. Pull the pony clutch lever back and gears stop contacting as they should, but no engagement. Will keep trying your suggestions and get it one of these days.
I did use a shopvac and blew air into the bellhousing to dry everything up.
Did you try manually working the latches on the end of the pinion? Maybe try prying those latches towards each other with two large screwdrivers (or pry bars). Maybe remove the cotter keys from the latch tension adjustment screws and back them way out, removing the latch tension. Then try moving it. If it starts to move in and out, try to get more lube on the parts, then adjust the tension screws. NOTE: if the pinion was latching and unlatching ok with the current tension, make sure to count the number of turns you back out the tension screws so you can screw them in to where they were originally. If it wasn't unlatching correctly you many need to play with the tension adjustment.

I recently had the pinion out of this current machine I am restoring. Someone had beat on the latches, I guess trying to unlatch the pinion (it was latched). They had really messed up the latches. I figured no use leaving it that way and since I had the pony off anyway, I better fix the pinion. I had to use my dremel and grind off a bunch of big dings from the latches and re-tap the adjustment screw holes. It was a mess. Anyway, I had to readjust tension. Before installing the pinion, I screwed the adjuster screws in evenly to the point that I couldn't latch the pinion (doing it by hand). Then I backed the screws out just to the point where I could latch the pinion (slam it over with my hand and it latch). I then installed the pinion. It seems to be the sweet spot because the pinion stays latched until the diesel starts, and it disengages good, and the pony does not seem to be revving when the diesel starts.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:18 PM
Rome K/G
Offline
Send a private message to Rome K/G
Posts: 6,092
Thank you received: 0
The springs inside the shaft are probably rusted and broke not letting the gear and latch assembly move forward enough to engage. Just removed the pinion on mine and thats what i found. Drain the coolant,raise the left side of the starting engine about an inch, remove the governor rear cover and the govenor housing, remove two upper rear bolts that hold the crankcase inspection cover the remove the pinion assembly. Make sure you have everything clean around the governor before removing. If you have a service manual that will explain it step by step too. A real pain to fix but when fixed right everything works great and as it should. have fun!!
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Thu, Mar 24, 2011 6:24 AM
Tim Stangeland
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Tim Stangeland
Posts: 8
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Rome K/G:
The springs inside the shaft are probably rusted and broke not letting the gear and latch assembly move forward enough to engage. Just removed the pinion on mine and thats what i found. Drain the coolant,raise the left side of the starting engine about an inch, remove the governor rear cover and the govenor housing, remove two upper rear bolts that hold the crankcase inspection cover the remove the pinion assembly. Make sure you have everything clean around the governor before removing. If you have a service manual that will explain it step by step too. A real pain to fix but when fixed right everything works great and as it should. have fun!!
Finally got the pony pinion to engage the flywheel. Sprayed the pinion with a liberal amount of diesel then Kroil. Still pretty stuck. Decided to fire up the pony and see if centrifugal force and vibration would help. Got pinion teeth to bump against the flywheel. Couldn't get full engagement until after several tries. The grinding and banging around finally freed everything. Works as it should now, just as it did last fall before all the problems started. Now just have to get the transfer pump functioning again. Going to check the pressure relief valve - again. This is a '43 orchard D2 and the pressure relief disc is different than the later D2's. I tried the replacement relief valve disc from Cat, but didn't work. Could only keep the engine running by blowing air into the vent hole in the fuel tank cap.
Thanks again for all the help and suggestions. That is where I got my inspiration to go on.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 5:18 AM
bernie
Offline
Member
Send a private message to bernie
Posts: 711
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Tim Stangeland:
Finally got the pony pinion to engage the flywheel. Sprayed the pinion with a liberal amount of diesel then Kroil. Still pretty stuck. Decided to fire up the pony and see if centrifugal force and vibration would help. Got pinion teeth to bump against the flywheel. Couldn't get full engagement until after several tries. The grinding and banging around finally freed everything. Works as it should now, just as it did last fall before all the problems started. Now just have to get the transfer pump functioning again. Going to check the pressure relief valve - again. This is a '43 orchard D2 and the pressure relief disc is different than the later D2's. I tried the replacement relief valve disc from Cat, but didn't work. Could only keep the engine running by blowing air into the vent hole in the fuel tank cap.
Thanks again for all the help and suggestions. That is where I got my inspiration to go on.
Hello Everyone-
I've been messing with my engaged pinion lever and assembly through the small inspection hole on my D42T. Takes a real gymnast to wriggle around in there to reach those dawgs and pinch them to open them up. That hole can't be over an inch and a half.

We ended up drilling a nice clean hole in the top of the cast cover at a pretty steep angle to allow us to poke something through and be able to depress both dawgs at the same time. It also allowed us to see a little better.

What I realized / learned was that when we pinched one dawg, the other compressed too. You can't see this through the single hole and the main clutch inspection cover just misses for visability from the top. Apparently one will depress them both, which I did not recall. Once I saw that, I gently pryed the sleeve back while depressing the back side of just one of the dawgs and it slid right back. Only wish I'd not drilled that hole....oh well.

I disengaged this pretty easily a year or so ago and damned if I can't remember the method I used then. My next option was to remove the front portion of my bikini transmission cover and expose the whole thing.

"e" you later!
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:06 PM
edb
Offline
Member
Send a private message to edb
Posts: 4,027
Thank you received: 0
Reply to bernie:
Hello Everyone-
I've been messing with my engaged pinion lever and assembly through the small inspection hole on my D42T. Takes a real gymnast to wriggle around in there to reach those dawgs and pinch them to open them up. That hole can't be over an inch and a half.

We ended up drilling a nice clean hole in the top of the cast cover at a pretty steep angle to allow us to poke something through and be able to depress both dawgs at the same time. It also allowed us to see a little better.

What I realized / learned was that when we pinched one dawg, the other compressed too. You can't see this through the single hole and the main clutch inspection cover just misses for visability from the top. Apparently one will depress them both, which I did not recall. Once I saw that, I gently pryed the sleeve back while depressing the back side of just one of the dawgs and it slid right back. Only wish I'd not drilled that hole....oh well.

I disengaged this pretty easily a year or so ago and damned if I can't remember the method I used then. My next option was to remove the front portion of my bikini transmission cover and expose the whole thing.

"e" you later!
Hi Bernie,
maybe tap a suitable thread for the size hole you drilled and plug it with a short bolt or pipe plug to stop water, etc entry.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Jun 28, 2011 7:01 PM
Arthropod
Offline
Send a private message to Arthropod
Posts: 302
Thank you received: 0
Reply to edb:
Hi Bernie,
maybe tap a suitable thread for the size hole you drilled and plug it with a short bolt or pipe plug to stop water, etc entry.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
I agree with Eddie B. Tap the hole, then screw in a piece of threaded rod or suitable plug. My most recent D2 project had several holes drilled and tapped in the tops of the final drives because a previous owner had installed these really thick steel plates to support the fenders and seat tank and had made brackets they bolted to the top of the finals. I didn't want the plates to remain so removed them and I just screwed bolts into the holes and then sawed the bolts off flush with the finals. You can't see the plugs once painted.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:18 PM
John from Fresno
Offline
Send a private message to John from Fresno
Posts: 286
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Arthropod:
I agree with Eddie B. Tap the hole, then screw in a piece of threaded rod or suitable plug. My most recent D2 project had several holes drilled and tapped in the tops of the final drives because a previous owner had installed these really thick steel plates to support the fenders and seat tank and had made brackets they bolted to the top of the finals. I didn't want the plates to remain so removed them and I just screwed bolts into the holes and then sawed the bolts off flush with the finals. You can't see the plugs once painted.
I hope you used some sort of tapered bolt? Once you cut the head off a bolt, the bolt is then free to screw in or out. The only thing retaining the bolt is the resistance of the threads. What keeps a bolt in, is what is compressed betwee the head and what the bolt is screwed into. You would have to use a tapered threaded plug or weld the shank of the straight threaded bolt.

Would be a bummer if the bolt screwed through to the inside of the case.

John
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Jun 29, 2011 12:20 AM
Showing 1 to 9 of 9 results
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Veerkamp Open House 2025

Chapter Fifteen

| Placerville, CA

Stradsett Park Vintage Rally

Chapter Two

| Stradsett, Nr Downham Market. Norfolk PE33 9HA UK

Chapter 2 The Link Club's AGM

Chapter Two

| Faulkner Farm, West Drove, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, PE14 7DP, UK
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I became a member recently because the wealth of knowledge here is priceless." 
-Chris R

Join Today!