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D2 pony motor making aluminum shavings...

D2 pony motor making aluminum shavings...

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Kiwicat
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Well, I spent a pleasant morning moving scrub and bush with my D2 today, and shut it down at midday for a break. Restarted it shortly thereafter, without having checked the pony motor oil level, which I usually do. Wish I had, as some time during the morning the pony motor oil drain tube had broken off, perhaps because of a stray rock getting thrown into the engine bay, but more likely through 60-plus years of metal fatigue. Anyway, there was no oil in the motor when I restarted it, and although only run briefly, I think it's kaput. This based on the knocking noise it's now making. Ran some oil through it to see what I could find, and several small pieces/shavings of what looks and feels like aluminum came out of where the oil drain tube used to be... Looks like I'm in for a pony motor remove and rebuild. But as a matter of curiosity, and assuming what I'm seeing is in fact aluminum, what in the motor could be making it? I would have thought most of the components in there would be steel, or some type of bearing material, but not a soft alloy. Thanks for the help.
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Sun, Jan 31, 2016 3:17 PM
mrsmackpaul
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have you tried filling it with oil again it all may come good motors can run a fair time with out oil I wouldnt make a habit of it LOL

A fella out here put some additve in a Holden reckon late 70's and dropped the oil and drove it from Melbourne to Sydney and it was fine ??????????

so with a bit of luck some thick oil maybe and it might be ok try turning it over with out any plugs in till it gets the circulated might help to reduce any extra wear

Paul

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you
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Sun, Jan 31, 2016 4:07 PM
drujinin
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Reply to mrsmackpaul:
have you tried filling it with oil again it all may come good motors can run a fair time with out oil I wouldnt make a habit of it LOL

A fella out here put some additve in a Holden reckon late 70's and dropped the oil and drove it from Melbourne to Sydney and it was fine ??????????

so with a bit of luck some thick oil maybe and it might be ok try turning it over with out any plugs in till it gets the circulated might help to reduce any extra wear

Paul

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you
Pistons are aluminum. If it has ever been rebuilt anytime in its life time, it may have aluminum bearings in it.
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Sun, Jan 31, 2016 7:50 PM
Sasquatch
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Reply to drujinin:
Pistons are aluminum. If it has ever been rebuilt anytime in its life time, it may have aluminum bearings in it.


Yep, pistons and main bearings are aluminum. You could also get non-ferrous debris off the faces of the rod bearing inserts. All very critical components.
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Sun, Jan 31, 2016 8:23 PM
restore49
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Reply to Sasquatch:


Yep, pistons and main bearings are aluminum. You could also get non-ferrous debris off the faces of the rod bearing inserts. All very critical components.
Electric start - not all that hard to do - makes my life a lot simpler on my 933. Bob
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Sun, Jan 31, 2016 9:16 PM
Kiwicat
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Reply to restore49:
Electric start - not all that hard to do - makes my life a lot simpler on my 933. Bob
It certainly pays not to run a pony motor without oil (albeit unintentionally - see my first post...), as the big ends on my crank have completely had it. I don't 'suppose anyone has a spare serviceable crank that could be shipped down to New Zealand, or knows a supplier who may? I've looked on eBay, and while there's plenty of D2 parts, crankshafts are not amongst them.
And while I'm here, are all D2 5U pony motors created equal, or are there some differences? My machine is 5U5996. Any advice gratefully received, thank you 😊
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Thu, Mar 3, 2016 11:20 AM
Kiwicat
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Reply to Kiwicat:
It certainly pays not to run a pony motor without oil (albeit unintentionally - see my first post...), as the big ends on my crank have completely had it. I don't 'suppose anyone has a spare serviceable crank that could be shipped down to New Zealand, or knows a supplier who may? I've looked on eBay, and while there's plenty of D2 parts, crankshafts are not amongst them.
And while I'm here, are all D2 5U pony motors created equal, or are there some differences? My machine is 5U5996. Any advice gratefully received, thank you 😊
Thought I should provide an update, and I would also like to thank all of you who offered some very helpful advice. My D2 is mobile again; I was able to source a used but hopefully not abused replacement block complete with crank, pistons and valves, so swapped over the other bits and pieces and refitted it. Both main bearings on the original crank were completely wrecked, and in the course of falling apart, gouged the crank beyond repair. This all happened in only about two minutes running, albeit under load while starting the main engine. My policy now in relation to checking the pony motor oil level is to do it at every start; not just the first one of the day! I've also ditched the pony motor sump drain tube thing, as that is what failed in the first place. I've just fitted a blanking plate to cover the hole, which is easy enough to remove for oil draining. I had no luck at all in finding a crank on its own; they must be out there but I guess are becoming increasingly scarce, so be nice to your pony and keep it well fed with good quality oil, and check the oil level before every start!
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Thu, Apr 7, 2016 2:38 PM
cojhl2
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Reply to Kiwicat:
Thought I should provide an update, and I would also like to thank all of you who offered some very helpful advice. My D2 is mobile again; I was able to source a used but hopefully not abused replacement block complete with crank, pistons and valves, so swapped over the other bits and pieces and refitted it. Both main bearings on the original crank were completely wrecked, and in the course of falling apart, gouged the crank beyond repair. This all happened in only about two minutes running, albeit under load while starting the main engine. My policy now in relation to checking the pony motor oil level is to do it at every start; not just the first one of the day! I've also ditched the pony motor sump drain tube thing, as that is what failed in the first place. I've just fitted a blanking plate to cover the hole, which is easy enough to remove for oil draining. I had no luck at all in finding a crank on its own; they must be out there but I guess are becoming increasingly scarce, so be nice to your pony and keep it well fed with good quality oil, and check the oil level before every start!
Hopefully I'm not being prissy prissy, but: before every start I always pull both dipsticks(Dont have to stare down the marks, but make sure there is oil in the cases) and look at cooling water level.

In addition on my D2 I always add ATF in the pinion clutch housing(because it leaks bad)

Glad you found a good short block kiwi
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Thu, Apr 7, 2016 3:22 PM
ag-mike
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Reply to cojhl2:
Hopefully I'm not being prissy prissy, but: before every start I always pull both dipsticks(Dont have to stare down the marks, but make sure there is oil in the cases) and look at cooling water level.

In addition on my D2 I always add ATF in the pinion clutch housing(because it leaks bad)

Glad you found a good short block kiwi


PONY OIL, it'd be good to make sure its not overfilled, if it is, its probably gas from a leaking/siphoning carb. "make sure to shut the gas off" "make sure the shut off valves shut it off". i just came to a valve that leaks by when tightly shut. good luck.
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Thu, Apr 7, 2016 7:14 PM
sdmuleman
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Reply to ag-mike:


PONY OIL, it'd be good to make sure its not overfilled, if it is, its probably gas from a leaking/siphoning carb. "make sure to shut the gas off" "make sure the shut off valves shut it off". i just came to a valve that leaks by when tightly shut. good luck.
Anyone ever thought about putting an oil level sensor on the pony motor? I'd think a common small engine low oil switch would work fine, or some sort of other float switch. Not sure if there's a way you could get it in the crankcase without having the engine apart, but seems like a worthwhile part of any major engine repair. Cheap and easy thing to do, then run it to an indicator light or wire to the magneto to cut off spark somehow. Definitely some room for tinkering to get it right, but seems doable and would protect from just this problem.
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Thu, Apr 7, 2016 11:19 PM
edb
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Reply to sdmuleman:
Anyone ever thought about putting an oil level sensor on the pony motor? I'd think a common small engine low oil switch would work fine, or some sort of other float switch. Not sure if there's a way you could get it in the crankcase without having the engine apart, but seems like a worthwhile part of any major engine repair. Cheap and easy thing to do, then run it to an indicator light or wire to the magneto to cut off spark somehow. Definitely some room for tinkering to get it right, but seems doable and would protect from just this problem.
Hi Team,
Woodward UG8 Governors use something like the old Ford V8 flat head Stromberg carb tool to give an indication of oil level in the gov. case.
Something like this could be fitted by drilling and tapping into the pony sump at the inner sump base line level.
I feel it would be just another item that could break off and loose your oil.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Fri, Apr 8, 2016 7:46 AM
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