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D2 Clutch Drama + Serial Location

D2 Clutch Drama + Serial Location

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Brad6
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G'day,

I have acquired a D2 over the last few months.
I first converted replaced the old worn 12 volt make shift starter system to 24 volts at great expense.
To then only find out the main clutch was stuck, the steering clutches where stuck and the brakes where stuck. Great!
Wish I had of found this forum before I embarked on the electrics. The engine even after being left out to pasture for 8 years started and ran like a charm which seems the norm for these.

Anyway, I have been trying everyones suggestions on the steering clutches and we now have half an inch of "springed" movement in each of these (from completely floppy) I will keep working on them, really don't like the idea of pulling these apart.

Brakes are back in action.

The main clutch though after trying many suggestions to free it, no go. I loosened the adjuster right back and that pressure plate came off the clutch but it was still engaged, I thought I perhaps had the wrong idea on how it worked.
So today I pulled the entire clutch out it was stuck tight against the flywheel but to me that seems normal as the way I understand it the flywheel and clutch spin (as the teeth of the clutch fir in the flywheel) and the rear pressure plate is either hard against them "engaged" or allowed free "disengaged" is this correct ? If so my drive shaft through the flywheel/clutch must be jammed up somewhere can anyone send me a drawing or image of the parts/composition/workings of this ?

I obviously need to get a manual for this machine and every time I get over to it I search for the serial number but I cant find one. Someone suggested the rear near the transmission hatch but there is none up there. I have an engine serial number that is on a plate on the engine would this be of benefit ? its 5017313

Thanks in advance Brad.
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Tue, Mar 4, 2014 7:19 PM
d9gdon
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Look at that engine serial number tag again, it's probably 5U17313.
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Tue, Mar 4, 2014 7:25 PM
neil
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Reply to d9gdon:
Look at that engine serial number tag again, it's probably 5U17313.
Dang, I should have read the entire post before launching on this explanation : ) Oh well, looks like you're on the right page : ) Yes, the clutch plate is engaged with teeth to the flywheel so it's always turning. The pressure plate is affixed to the clutch shaft via the hub. As you saw, the pressure plate is adjusted by threading on the hub. The clutch shaft goes through the whole assembly and fits into a pilot bearing in the end of the main engine crankshaft. Based on your description, this bearing is likely seized. Go ahead and remove the entire clutch assembly including shaft and then you can unbolt the pilot bearing seal and extract the pilot bearing with a small two-legged slide puller. Inspect the pilot bearing surface on the clutch shaft and shiny it up if it needs it. If it's too far gone, you'll need to replace the shaft.
For the parts manual, you need 5U13723 and up (I think it is) to cover your machine. DandyDave has a collection for sale so take a look through his listing. You'll also want the service manual for it and if necessary, the operator's manual.

Brad, you're in luck. With that serial number, you should have a two-piece clutch shaft, meaning that you can unbolt the two halves of the clutch shaft coupling, and then pull the whole clutch assembly out. Once you have it out, it's really easy to rehabilitate. Drive out the 8 pins that connect the linkage from the thrust collar to the pressure plate, unwind the pressure plate from the hub, and then shiny everything up. You may not need anything new; just a shiny-up. Don't forget to use copper lube / no-seize on the pins and the pressure plate/collar thread, and the adjustment pin, which is on one of the arms. To loosen that adjustment pin up (if it's seized), use penetrating old and lightly tap it to and fro - don't be too rough with it and it'll loosen up nicely with a bit of patience. If you do need a clutch plate, they are available. I think I picked mine up from Cat and General Gear also has them. While you have the clutch out, inspect the clutch brake linings, and check that the main lever and all the linkage moves freely. Disengaging the main clutch also unlocks the transmission shifter so if you can't change gears, it might be because the shifter linkage is still in the locked position. Keep us up to date, and post pictures (and you can also update your profile with your location etc. Folks in your area may be able to provide assistance / on-site guidance.
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Tue, Mar 4, 2014 8:01 PM
ccjersey
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Brad, look at the tractor from the rear. On the left side, above the drawbar support bracket, you should see either the same small aluminum tag that was on the engine or the two holes where it was riveted onto the rear, (vertical) face of the steering clutch housing. If you find just the two holes there, scrape the area in between to reveal the serial number stamped into the steel there.

The tractor chasis serial number should match the engine serial number unless the engine has been replaced.

On the stuck main clutch, it really doesn't take a lot of "stuck" to make it impossible to shift the transmission into gear after you crank the engine. Neil is spot on about the pilot bearing. If it is not seized and feels good, look for the grease fitting in the rear face of the flywheel rim so you can pump some grease through it and purge the old stuff before you reassemble the clutch. That bearing doesn't take much greasing, but many of them have never been greased due to the fitting being so hard to find. If the bearing is OK, then just shine everything up, lubricate the pivots and release bearing collar etc and reinstall the clutch. New clutch disks are not all that expensive if yours has much wear or the teeth seem to be getting chewed up.

The "over-center" hand clutch design is one reason why it is recommended that you never leave the seat of the tractor with the engine running unless you place the transmission in neutral (and re-engage the clutch). This ensures that if you bump the clutch lever as you get on or off the tractor, it will not move. Or if the pilot bearing (which is turning whenever the clutch is disengaged with the engine running) were to seize, again, the tractor will not take off on it's own.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, Mar 4, 2014 9:11 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ccjersey:
Brad, look at the tractor from the rear. On the left side, above the drawbar support bracket, you should see either the same small aluminum tag that was on the engine or the two holes where it was riveted onto the rear, (vertical) face of the steering clutch housing. If you find just the two holes there, scrape the area in between to reveal the serial number stamped into the steel there.

The tractor chasis serial number should match the engine serial number unless the engine has been replaced.

On the stuck main clutch, it really doesn't take a lot of "stuck" to make it impossible to shift the transmission into gear after you crank the engine. Neil is spot on about the pilot bearing. If it is not seized and feels good, look for the grease fitting in the rear face of the flywheel rim so you can pump some grease through it and purge the old stuff before you reassemble the clutch. That bearing doesn't take much greasing, but many of them have never been greased due to the fitting being so hard to find. If the bearing is OK, then just shine everything up, lubricate the pivots and release bearing collar etc and reinstall the clutch. New clutch disks are not all that expensive if yours has much wear or the teeth seem to be getting chewed up.

The "over-center" hand clutch design is one reason why it is recommended that you never leave the seat of the tractor with the engine running unless you place the transmission in neutral (and re-engage the clutch). This ensures that if you bump the clutch lever as you get on or off the tractor, it will not move. Or if the pilot bearing (which is turning whenever the clutch is disengaged with the engine running) were to seize, again, the tractor will not take off on it's own.
I'm curious to know what "great expense" for the 24V starter was if you don't mind sharing. Was that for an original inertia drive type starter or for a conversion?
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 12:32 AM
8C 361
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[quote="Brad6"]G'day,


Anyway, I have been trying everyones suggestions on the steering clutches and we now have half an inch of "springed" movement in each of these (from completely floppy) I will keep working on them, really don't like the idea of pulling these apart.

Brakes are back in action.

[/quote]

If you have some spring to the steering clutches it is a good sign, they are just stuck, not a failed release bearing.

I would start by taking out as much free play as possible with the adjustment. I guess you will need to get your main clutch working before you go much further on steering clutches.

I would get it in an area where you can run it back and forth. I like to ride the brakes to heat the drums and cause them to break the rust bond. Some guys like to soak them with diesel or solvent. It does not take a lot of liquid if you can run it back and forth a bit to imerse the entire clutch. Maybe a combination of the two methods, but I would not try the brake riding/heat method with liquid in there, it will serve to cool too much. There is the run it into a tree theory. If the brakes work at all they will serve the same purpose and gentler to the Cat. Sharp applications of the brakes (to the point of almost stalling the engine) will do just as much as the tree with less chance of causing damage.

Don't give up, you don't want to take it apart. Let us know what works.
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 1:15 AM
Cysco
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Reply to 8C 361:
[quote="Brad6"]G'day,


Anyway, I have been trying everyones suggestions on the steering clutches and we now have half an inch of "springed" movement in each of these (from completely floppy) I will keep working on them, really don't like the idea of pulling these apart.

Brakes are back in action.

[/quote]

If you have some spring to the steering clutches it is a good sign, they are just stuck, not a failed release bearing.

I would start by taking out as much free play as possible with the adjustment. I guess you will need to get your main clutch working before you go much further on steering clutches.

I would get it in an area where you can run it back and forth. I like to ride the brakes to heat the drums and cause them to break the rust bond. Some guys like to soak them with diesel or solvent. It does not take a lot of liquid if you can run it back and forth a bit to imerse the entire clutch. Maybe a combination of the two methods, but I would not try the brake riding/heat method with liquid in there, it will serve to cool too much. There is the run it into a tree theory. If the brakes work at all they will serve the same purpose and gentler to the Cat. Sharp applications of the brakes (to the point of almost stalling the engine) will do just as much as the tree with less chance of causing damage.

Don't give up, you don't want to take it apart. Let us know what works.
Brad6,

I hope these scans help.

Have a good day....Bill
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 3:16 AM
dpendzic
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Reply to Cysco:
Brad6,

I hope these scans help.

Have a good day....Bill
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Nice Bill!! Technical library candidate????
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 3:26 AM
Cysco
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Reply to dpendzic:
Nice Bill!! Technical library candidate????


dpendzic,
Now if I could only figure out how the order of pages got reversed except for the cover........Bruce must be have done it... 😊
Bill
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 4:00 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Cysco:


dpendzic,
Now if I could only figure out how the order of pages got reversed except for the cover........Bruce must be have done it... 😊
Bill
Good info ....but sure makes for tough reading for these old eyes.
Single page and larger file size would sure help.

This BB program never has been able to get the order straight.
When you get all the pages loaded, you have to transpose the images along the bottom of the page that shows the line up to get the order you want.
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 5:16 AM
Brad6
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Good info ....but sure makes for tough reading for these old eyes.
Single page and larger file size would sure help.

This BB program never has been able to get the order straight.
When you get all the pages loaded, you have to transpose the images along the bottom of the page that shows the line up to get the order you want.
One D2 that goes forwards and backwards and a bloke with a smile from ear to ear.

Thank you all for the wealth of information and prompt reply I really appreciate it and it helped me out immensely today.

D9dgon: How stupid of me, you are of course absolutely right I had assumed due to some of the features like being able to get the clutch out from the top it was a 5U just couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Neil, CCJersey: I found the pilot bearing thanks for that cleaned her all out actually in pretty good nick still, actually I was surprised how good all the parts down there where considering the age.

Bill: thanks for the scans, these where are great and its all right my eyes are still young enough to read them 😉

8C 361: Well by lunch I had the clutch assembly back in, and after a few adjustments had her running as smooth as. I had previously filled the clutch cavities up with diesel so this afternoon I tried the brake heat method. I ran up and down a 100 metre stretch about 30 times (all afternoon) I tried in high gears low gears brake hard brake soft - any way still no luck with either. Please no one tell me what those brake fumes are made of, I don't want to know...
I cant get back to her now for a few days but in the mean time I think I will find some rust solvent and try that, will keep you posted.

In the mean time if I can work out how to attach an image. I hope you all don't mind me showing of my achievements (don't mind her rusty exterior).
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Wed, Mar 5, 2014 6:35 PM
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