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D2-5U water in the pony oil…?

D2-5U water in the pony oil…?

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J McLean
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I've had this problem on here before but no one seems to have any idea what's wrong…,
Here goes again. Coolant contaminates the oil in the pony motor. It did it last year but I didn't get a chance to work on it so I drained the oil out of the pony when I parked it and that's how it set all winter, antifreeze in the big engine, no oil in the pony. I didn't think it would even run this year but I poured a quart of oil in the pony and it started right up,(electric start). It starts and runs superbly. No missing, no knocks. just runs fine. The big engine starts right up as well. It always has.
I have to mention, I did have some trouble with the pinion on the starter,( it came off while the big engine was running and killed the big engine!). I had to pull the pony motor off to fix that. This incident was several years ago and it's started and ran fine until last summer when I started getting water in the oil.
I don't think the block is cracked, or the heads, or a blown head gasket…, It just starts and runs to well for that… Buuttt, could I have damaged the gasket between the pony engine and the big engines clutch housing and it just wasn't bad enough to leak right away and it took a couple of years of sporadic starts and off again/on again operation to bring the problem to the forefront.
When I pour fresh oil into the pony, start the pony, then start the big engine and shut the pony off it probably takes about seven or eight minutes. Say the pony's in operation 10 minutes. When I shut it off and drain the pony oil, I get about 120% of the volume of oil I put in just put in a few minutes before…
I also considered gasoline contamination, but again, it runs so well. I always shut off the gas and kill the pony by running it out of gas.

Hummn… This fat boy needs some help here… Ha ha

This seems like a stupid question, The oil/gunk I drain is cloudy, milky looking stuff… How could I tell if it's contaminated with antifreeze? Or gas?
I guess find a oil lab.

Well, maybe some one will have an idea...
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Sun, Aug 3, 2014 11:59 AM
Jw74
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Hi J have you checked the level of antifreeze in your radiator to see if it is dropping? If it is then it must be the antifreeze contaminating the oil. The gasket between the base of the pony and the flywheel housing only separates the oil in your pinion housing from the antifreeze. So in my opinion you must have a bad seal on a head gasket or possible crack. It can still run well and not be sealed well. Any head gasket job I have ever done I have used the copper coat gasket spray on both sides of the gasket, torqued everything and then re torqued after the first start up. Also maybe check to see if all of your head nuts are tight they should be 30 ft lbs. If it was being diluted with gasoline your oil would still be the same color and smell like gasoline. Hope this helps, Jesse
Thanks God Bless
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Sun, Aug 3, 2014 12:23 PM
Old Magnet
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Milky looking oil is the result of water contamination. Lots of possible candidates for leakage. If you believe the heads and top manifold gasket are sound I'd suspect the cooling cross over passage that is part of the sump casting may be your problem. especially if the pony has seen freezing temperatures during it's life or there has been serious corrosion of the water side.
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Sun, Aug 3, 2014 12:26 PM
J McLean
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Milky looking oil is the result of water contamination. Lots of possible candidates for leakage. If you believe the heads and top manifold gasket are sound I'd suspect the cooling cross over passage that is part of the sump casting may be your problem. especially if the pony has seen freezing temperatures during it's life or there has been serious corrosion of the water side.
Yes, the big engine coolant gradually drops over time…, I'm certain I'm some how getting cooling system fluid into the pony crankcase. I'm just not familiar with how the cooling system works. I don't see how, or where the cooling system crosses with the pony crankcase that a break or malfunction would allow mixing. My choices seem to be:
1.] cracked pony block…

2.] cracked pony head…

3.] blown head gasket…

4.] damaged pony manifold gasket…

5.] now perhaps Old Magnet has came up with some where else I could be having a problem… I don't see exactly where you mean O. M.
Where would this cross over passage be? In the sump casting? Would that entail splitting the engine-clutch-transmission and
replacing/repairing a crack. Oh My! As bad as that sounds, Oh My! This tractor has certainly seen some colder temps. that's for sure.
It was born in Illinois, raised in southern Montana and northern Wyoming for 60 some years and if I'm going to have them use it to cover
me up, I'm going to have to fix it!

I guess I'll start with the easy things first….
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Sun, Aug 3, 2014 11:40 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to J McLean:
Yes, the big engine coolant gradually drops over time…, I'm certain I'm some how getting cooling system fluid into the pony crankcase. I'm just not familiar with how the cooling system works. I don't see how, or where the cooling system crosses with the pony crankcase that a break or malfunction would allow mixing. My choices seem to be:
1.] cracked pony block…

2.] cracked pony head…

3.] blown head gasket…

4.] damaged pony manifold gasket…

5.] now perhaps Old Magnet has came up with some where else I could be having a problem… I don't see exactly where you mean O. M.
Where would this cross over passage be? In the sump casting? Would that entail splitting the engine-clutch-transmission and
replacing/repairing a crack. Oh My! As bad as that sounds, Oh My! This tractor has certainly seen some colder temps. that's for sure.
It was born in Illinois, raised in southern Montana and northern Wyoming for 60 some years and if I'm going to have them use it to cover
me up, I'm going to have to fix it!

I guess I'll start with the easy things first….
The cross over passage is cast in to the pony block....the rectangular section you see at the bottom of the block. Water comes in from the bottom, flow is split to left and right head, up through the top manifold and back to the main engine.
This would be the last thing I'd check but you seem to be convinced everything else is fine.....yet you still have a problem.
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Mon, Aug 4, 2014 12:12 AM
J McLean
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Reply to Old Magnet:
The cross over passage is cast in to the pony block....the rectangular section you see at the bottom of the block. Water comes in from the bottom, flow is split to left and right head, up through the top manifold and back to the main engine.
This would be the last thing I'd check but you seem to be convinced everything else is fine.....yet you still have a problem.
Hummn, Yeah you've got it O.M.
I'll just start looking from the top down…., I'm actually not convinced every thing else is fine. No. I am just WISHING every thing else is fine. I know,"Wish in one hand and poop in the other. See which hand fills Up first!"
I have another pony motor off of a parts cat. It didn't run but if I find something wrong in the pony that's on my D2 now, I can hopefully have enough parts to,'Make one out of two…'
I can't believe the experience you have with these CAT animals. What is your background? If you were in the construction, mining, or farming industry, they/we surely have benefited from your knowledge. Thank you!

p.s. I hope when I'm done fooling around with this D2 that the darn thing runs as good as it does now, only without the [u]coolant in oil[/u] problem…, Ha ha, Git'ter done!!!

Thanks again...
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Tue, Aug 5, 2014 9:32 PM
J McLean
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Reply to J McLean:
Hummn, Yeah you've got it O.M.
I'll just start looking from the top down…., I'm actually not convinced every thing else is fine. No. I am just WISHING every thing else is fine. I know,"Wish in one hand and poop in the other. See which hand fills Up first!"
I have another pony motor off of a parts cat. It didn't run but if I find something wrong in the pony that's on my D2 now, I can hopefully have enough parts to,'Make one out of two…'
I can't believe the experience you have with these CAT animals. What is your background? If you were in the construction, mining, or farming industry, they/we surely have benefited from your knowledge. Thank you!

p.s. I hope when I'm done fooling around with this D2 that the darn thing runs as good as it does now, only without the [u]coolant in oil[/u] problem…, Ha ha, Git'ter done!!!

Thanks again...
Just thought of something else…

Thank for the pictures O.M. , Did you just happen to have a pony torn down on your bench? Or, are the pics from your vast store of experience?

I'll try to take pictures of this little project of mine so someone else will maybe benefit…

Again, Thanks again!
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Tue, Aug 5, 2014 9:42 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to J McLean:
Just thought of something else…

Thank for the pictures O.M. , Did you just happen to have a pony torn down on your bench? Or, are the pics from your vast store of experience?

I'll try to take pictures of this little project of mine so someone else will maybe benefit…

Again, Thanks again!
I keep an old pony motor block around as a door stop.
At this point I have most the info I need to handle requests on file. Not to many new topics come up that haven't already been detailed to death, especially on the D2's which basically have the same questions over and over ad nauseum.
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Tue, Aug 5, 2014 11:20 PM
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