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D2 5U steering clutch issue, left track stops when right is pulled!?

D2 5U steering clutch issue, left track stops when right is pulled!?

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btsclan
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Ive was finally able to get my D2 5U out in on the property to start clearing our fire break for summer. It was all going well until it wasnt. Ive been searching the forums with out any great success and Im worried theres something wrong internally. 

I was pulling a 2 gang 7" disc and had traveled roughly 1/4 mile and my left steering clutch stopped working. Im unable to turn left, when I pull the left steering clutch the right track stops, sometimes I can get it working as it should if I move the clutch lever to mid way of its travel and apply the left brake. Ive adjusted the steering clutch and steering brakes per the service manual. 

When I bought the tractor a few months ago it drove well, both steering clutches and brakes worked. I did notice that when one steering clutch was applied the other lever moved so I know the bevel gear isnt in great shape. 

Would love any words of wisdom, I am very new when it comes to Caterpillar tractors. Ive been watching many of Squatch's videos to help educate my self but I am really struggling trying to figure this out. Any clues or suggestions on where to start looking, again it does not turn left and when I pull the left steering lever the right tracks stop. 

Thanks!
Steven 
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Fri, Apr 12, 2024 12:07 PM
PhilC
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Seems like there is something wrong with the right steering clutch. When running in a straight line does the machine slowly turn to the right? If you put your foot on the right brake without touching the steering clutches the engine should load up and not steer but if there is something wrong with the right steering clutch it will turn to the right.
If its a dry steering clutch then it might have oil on it which will most likely drive enough for light work but when you put a load on it, it starts to slip. Another possibility is the springs have lost tension or the clutch plates are worn out.

When you say "when I pull the left steering lever the right tracks stop" do you mean both tracks stop or just the right?
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Fri, Apr 12, 2024 5:18 PM
neil
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Reply to PhilC:
Seems like there is something wrong with the right steering clutch. When running in a straight line does the machine slowly turn to the right? If you put your foot on the right brake without touching the steering clutches the engine should load up and not steer but if there is something wrong with the right steering clutch it will turn to the right.
If its a dry steering clutch then it might have oil on it which will most likely drive enough for light work but when you put a load on it, it starts to slip. Another possibility is the springs have lost tension or the clutch plates are worn out.

When you say "when I pull the left steering lever the right tracks stop" do you mean both tracks stop or just the right?
It sounds to me from your description there's a couple of other possibilities. One is that the right clutch splines are worn enough coupled with sufficient bevel shaft movement that the splines come out of engagement. My 5U had concentric rings worn in the outer clutch hub that would allow the splined plates to turn if they moved into that position. The other possible is that the bevel gear bearings might be so bad that the bevel gear is moving out of engagement with the pinion. Back the tractor up on to some 6" blocks and take the rear cover off, tie the left clutch lever back then go round the back and use a piece of wood to see if you can move the bevel gear out of engagement.
One other thought that occurred is if the bevel shaft is broken on an angle such that at full left clutch disengagement, it doesn't make contact vs. at half disengagement, there is just enough contact to drive the right side - seems unlikely to me though
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Fri, Apr 12, 2024 7:02 PM
btsclan
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Reply to PhilC:
Seems like there is something wrong with the right steering clutch. When running in a straight line does the machine slowly turn to the right? If you put your foot on the right brake without touching the steering clutches the engine should load up and not steer but if there is something wrong with the right steering clutch it will turn to the right.
If its a dry steering clutch then it might have oil on it which will most likely drive enough for light work but when you put a load on it, it starts to slip. Another possibility is the springs have lost tension or the clutch plates are worn out.

When you say "when I pull the left steering lever the right tracks stop" do you mean both tracks stop or just the right?
Thanks PhilC and Neil for your replies

The tractor drives nice and straight and doesn't seem to pull left or right. I'll have to get back on the tractor today and see what happens when I press the right brake per PhilC's comment. The clutches are dry, since it was acting fine before has me thinking something else is wrong rather then oil on the clutch plates, I was going up and down some hills so maybe some oil leaked into the clutch chambers and then the issue showed itself. 

To clarify, if I pull back the left clutch brake the right tracks loose power and doesn't rotate. Before I started working the tractor I adjusted the clutch levers, but wasnt able to get the travel down to 3", the levers move maybe 4-6" before engaging. 

The previous owner said he replaced the clutch packs a few years ago but I have no way to knowing how accurate that is. I'll pull the rear cover today and see if theres any play i the bevel gear, raising the rear up 6" im guessing will allow me to open the cover without needing to drain the transmission oil?

One more thing to know which perhaps its connected. Right after this problem started, sometimes when Im in gear and release the main clutch the tractor doesn't move but if I put it in reverse it moves fine and then fine again in a forward gear, could this mean that perhaps both steering clutches are slipping? I inspected the main clutch and looks dry and is adjusted properly. 

If there is play in the bevel gear how extensive is that fix? Im guessing Id have to pull of both final drives, steering clutches to fix or replace any bearing or gear?

I appreciate your help and input on this!

 
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Fri, Apr 12, 2024 10:45 PM
side-seat
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Reply to btsclan:
Thanks PhilC and Neil for your replies

The tractor drives nice and straight and doesn't seem to pull left or right. I'll have to get back on the tractor today and see what happens when I press the right brake per PhilC's comment. The clutches are dry, since it was acting fine before has me thinking something else is wrong rather then oil on the clutch plates, I was going up and down some hills so maybe some oil leaked into the clutch chambers and then the issue showed itself. 

To clarify, if I pull back the left clutch brake the right tracks loose power and doesn't rotate. Before I started working the tractor I adjusted the clutch levers, but wasnt able to get the travel down to 3", the levers move maybe 4-6" before engaging. 

The previous owner said he replaced the clutch packs a few years ago but I have no way to knowing how accurate that is. I'll pull the rear cover today and see if theres any play i the bevel gear, raising the rear up 6" im guessing will allow me to open the cover without needing to drain the transmission oil?

One more thing to know which perhaps its connected. Right after this problem started, sometimes when Im in gear and release the main clutch the tractor doesn't move but if I put it in reverse it moves fine and then fine again in a forward gear, could this mean that perhaps both steering clutches are slipping? I inspected the main clutch and looks dry and is adjusted properly. 

If there is play in the bevel gear how extensive is that fix? Im guessing Id have to pull of both final drives, steering clutches to fix or replace any bearing or gear?

I appreciate your help and input on this!

 
Definitely the right clutch is slipping. Go back and check that you have the bell cranks adjusted properly. There may not be enough free play on the bolt and it's putting pressure on the release yoke. Pictures really help to see what you got under the cover.
If you think oil is causing the problem remove the drain plug and see if anything comes out. If so; Do the recommended flush spelled out in the manual.
I've had a similar problem while pulling a road grader where one or both clutches were slipping right after a total ground up rebuild. The fix, Adjust the clutches again since they needed time to ware in . You may have the same problem since you said the previous owner put new ones in.
You are pulling a disc. Did you let the drawbar swing? Not doing so makes it tough to turn and that maybe why it's slipping.
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Sat, Apr 13, 2024 12:50 AM
btsclan
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Reply to side-seat:
Definitely the right clutch is slipping. Go back and check that you have the bell cranks adjusted properly. There may not be enough free play on the bolt and it's putting pressure on the release yoke. Pictures really help to see what you got under the cover.
If you think oil is causing the problem remove the drain plug and see if anything comes out. If so; Do the recommended flush spelled out in the manual.
I've had a similar problem while pulling a road grader where one or both clutches were slipping right after a total ground up rebuild. The fix, Adjust the clutches again since they needed time to ware in . You may have the same problem since you said the previous owner put new ones in.
You are pulling a disc. Did you let the drawbar swing? Not doing so makes it tough to turn and that maybe why it's slipping.
Thanks, this afternoon I'll make sure the bell cranks are adjusted properly and see if that helps any. This is my first CAT so I am very new to this machine, I could have easily not adjusted them correctly, that would be the best solution! My D2 is an orchard rear seat model so the diesel tank needs to be removed when ever you need to adjust the clutches and I just put 20 gallons of diesel in the tank.....will get a good arm workout taking it off haha

I removed the left side drain plug yesterday and nothing came out, it was a bit oily when I stuck my finger in but again nothing came out. Will do the same on the right side today. The drawbar was able to swing so dont think that would be an issue unless it binds up.
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Sat, Apr 13, 2024 1:05 AM
juiceman
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Reply to btsclan:
Thanks, this afternoon I'll make sure the bell cranks are adjusted properly and see if that helps any. This is my first CAT so I am very new to this machine, I could have easily not adjusted them correctly, that would be the best solution! My D2 is an orchard rear seat model so the diesel tank needs to be removed when ever you need to adjust the clutches and I just put 20 gallons of diesel in the tank.....will get a good arm workout taking it off haha

I removed the left side drain plug yesterday and nothing came out, it was a bit oily when I stuck my finger in but again nothing came out. Will do the same on the right side today. The drawbar was able to swing so dont think that would be an issue unless it binds up.
Sounds like they could be over adjusted; 3” free travel is needed. D2 orchard units are fun! JM
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Sat, Apr 13, 2024 1:54 AM
btsclan
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Ok, so I think I figured it out. My steering levers have a ton of slope in them before they start to move the crank arms (not sure what they are called, these are the pieces that adjuster screws makes contact to for each clutch). When I originally adjusted the steer clutches I tried to get the 3" of travel not realizing there was a ton of slope i the lever so I must of over tightened the adjuster screw inhibiting full clamping force to the clutch plates. I backed them off a few turns to make sure they weren't preloading onto the adjuster much, took it for a drive and it turns left! The right steer clutch looks to have some oil on it compared to the left, at least what I could see so will probably be worth doing a cleaning process. Also checked both plugs and no oil/fluid came out.

Now to see why I have so much play in my steering levers, need to read up on them, guessing theres a bad bushing somewhere in the system.

I am still having the issue when I stop on a hill in gear, then try to go again and theres no forward movement, either the main clutch slipping or both steering clutches slipping? Will get back on with the disc this weekend and see how she performs.

Thanks again for all your help everyone, much appreciated!
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Sat, Apr 13, 2024 4:17 AM
neil
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Reply to btsclan:
Ok, so I think I figured it out. My steering levers have a ton of slope in them before they start to move the crank arms (not sure what they are called, these are the pieces that adjuster screws makes contact to for each clutch). When I originally adjusted the steer clutches I tried to get the 3" of travel not realizing there was a ton of slope i the lever so I must of over tightened the adjuster screw inhibiting full clamping force to the clutch plates. I backed them off a few turns to make sure they weren't preloading onto the adjuster much, took it for a drive and it turns left! The right steer clutch looks to have some oil on it compared to the left, at least what I could see so will probably be worth doing a cleaning process. Also checked both plugs and no oil/fluid came out.

Now to see why I have so much play in my steering levers, need to read up on them, guessing theres a bad bushing somewhere in the system.

I am still having the issue when I stop on a hill in gear, then try to go again and theres no forward movement, either the main clutch slipping or both steering clutches slipping? Will get back on with the disc this weekend and see how she performs.

Thanks again for all your help everyone, much appreciated!
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That's great to hear! Everything I suggested would be expensive to fix : ) If you don't already have it, get the Serviceman's Reference for your serial number. It will give you the proper technique for adjusting the clutches. Yes, bushings and bearings wear and you might be surprised at how little wear translates into inability to adjust well. I put all new steering in my 5U and all the bushings and it's night and day - no comparison at all. I can tell now what one of these would have been like brand new - very little effort and precise, clean movements
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Sat, Apr 13, 2024 4:52 AM
GrantJ
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Reply to neil:
That's great to hear! Everything I suggested would be expensive to fix : ) If you don't already have it, get the Serviceman's Reference for your serial number. It will give you the proper technique for adjusting the clutches. Yes, bushings and bearings wear and you might be surprised at how little wear translates into inability to adjust well. I put all new steering in my 5U and all the bushings and it's night and day - no comparison at all. I can tell now what one of these would have been like brand new - very little effort and precise, clean movements
I think I also am going to have to remove the fuel tank on my tailseat 5U, since my clutches seem to work OK but there is so much slop (or bad adjustment) that I have to pull the lever almost until it hits the seat to release properly. I have 4 or 5 hours on this machine since a 12 year storage, and find it the most uncomfortable Cat I have ever been on. If I was a foot shorter it might fit me better and I am only average height. Clutches and brakes return slowly when released and I hope that clears up with more use.

This has been an interesting thread for me. Thanks, btsclan. Grant.
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Sun, Apr 14, 2024 11:44 PM
juiceman
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Reply to GrantJ:
I think I also am going to have to remove the fuel tank on my tailseat 5U, since my clutches seem to work OK but there is so much slop (or bad adjustment) that I have to pull the lever almost until it hits the seat to release properly. I have 4 or 5 hours on this machine since a 12 year storage, and find it the most uncomfortable Cat I have ever been on. If I was a foot shorter it might fit me better and I am only average height. Clutches and brakes return slowly when released and I hope that clears up with more use.

This has been an interesting thread for me. Thanks, btsclan. Grant.
Grant: As short and FAT as I am, the D2's can be pretty uncomfortable for me as well. On some of the topseat versions here, I raise the seat cushion 8" inches for more leg room!
Others have put spacers and raised the seat base on the orchard machines too. 
Good luck on your adjustments, it can be a pain to remove the tank, etc. Don't forget to adjust the brakes while the hood is off too.
I have a nice top seat tractor coming here in a couple of weeks if you give up on yours. JM
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Mon, Apr 15, 2024 12:22 AM
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