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D2 5U stack slobber

D2 5U stack slobber

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933scotty
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I have a 1950 D2 5U that is slobbering out of the stack not just a fine mist but it runs down the stack and down the block and hood. It had one bad injector pump that I changed and cured the dead miss I also swapped out the nozzles for another set that didn't make any difference. The engine seems to run fine other than it pops every so often (out of cyl 1 it seems I ran it without exhaust manifold ) it seems to slobber out of most cyls but don't get much blow by out of oil filler or dipstick tube. I have heard stuck rings or other causes but it seems to start and run too easy to be worn out. I would hate to tear down if another solution is available. It only runs about into the green on fuel pressure gauge at high rpm and into red at idle (already changed filters no change in pressure probably a fuel transfer issue checked by pass and okay) Any suggestions?????? Thanks Scotty
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Sat, Oct 25, 2014 8:32 PM
Sasquatch
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Worn rings and/or glazed cylinder sleeves can cause this, as you've already mentioned. But some other things to keep in mind would be thermostat operation - are you getting the diesel up to full temp? If the thermostat is worn out and not letting the diesel reach full operating temperature that will inhibit clean, full combustion. Also these old Cats weren't really meant to be idled for long periods of time or even worked lightly. They built them to work hard, and sometimes all it takes to keep them from wet stacking is a good run at or near full power output to really warm them up and get them cleaned out. But that occasional "popping" noise you mentioned kind of sounds like there may still be an injection system issue, whether it's being caused by your weak transfer pump pressure or an injection pump itself I can't say. If it were mine, I'd start by getting the transfer pump output up to spec and see if that takes care of the "pop" noise (if the bypass has already been verified as OK then you're probably looking at renewing the internal clearances in the pump itself). If it still "pops" with good fuel supply and the injector nozzles have been eliminated as a possible problem then it's time to look at the condition of the injector pumps and also make sure they're all timed to the rack properly. Then pay attention to the engine temp and give it a good workout and see if that cleans the exhaust up.
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Sat, Oct 25, 2014 9:05 PM
933scotty
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Reply to Sasquatch:
Worn rings and/or glazed cylinder sleeves can cause this, as you've already mentioned. But some other things to keep in mind would be thermostat operation - are you getting the diesel up to full temp? If the thermostat is worn out and not letting the diesel reach full operating temperature that will inhibit clean, full combustion. Also these old Cats weren't really meant to be idled for long periods of time or even worked lightly. They built them to work hard, and sometimes all it takes to keep them from wet stacking is a good run at or near full power output to really warm them up and get them cleaned out. But that occasional "popping" noise you mentioned kind of sounds like there may still be an injection system issue, whether it's being caused by your weak transfer pump pressure or an injection pump itself I can't say. If it were mine, I'd start by getting the transfer pump output up to spec and see if that takes care of the "pop" noise (if the bypass has already been verified as OK then you're probably looking at renewing the internal clearances in the pump itself). If it still "pops" with good fuel supply and the injector nozzles have been eliminated as a possible problem then it's time to look at the condition of the injector pumps and also make sure they're all timed to the rack properly. Then pay attention to the engine temp and give it a good workout and see if that cleans the exhaust up.
I figured I still have injection/ delivery problems. The issue of stack measles is what I need to solve before I get to involved in this motor I may have to rebuild or swap engines so I was trying to get a feel for what to do to get it hot and running dry. I have the tractor home and I live in neighbor hood with three lots but not much room to dig I can take her back to the show grounds (National Pike ) but I want to put her in garage and get her steering both ways again and do a general going over ft idelrs and that kind of stuff. Owned it for about 2 years but a triple by pass got in my way this spring so Im going to try what I can at home to dry it up gonna cover rad with card board and run her up today see if I can get her warm that way If she drys up we got lots of fuel inj parts to swap in from there .Thanks again Scotty
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Sat, Oct 25, 2014 9:41 PM
cojhl2
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Reply to 933scotty:
I figured I still have injection/ delivery problems. The issue of stack measles is what I need to solve before I get to involved in this motor I may have to rebuild or swap engines so I was trying to get a feel for what to do to get it hot and running dry. I have the tractor home and I live in neighbor hood with three lots but not much room to dig I can take her back to the show grounds (National Pike ) but I want to put her in garage and get her steering both ways again and do a general going over ft idelrs and that kind of stuff. Owned it for about 2 years but a triple by pass got in my way this spring so Im going to try what I can at home to dry it up gonna cover rad with card board and run her up today see if I can get her warm that way If she drys up we got lots of fuel inj parts to swap in from there .Thanks again Scotty
Agreeing w/ Sasquatch, Jim Zimmerman told me once (I have a 9U with the issue) that this is almost always caused by either a worn pump (or all of them) and/or the pumps running out of time due to gear lash.
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Sat, Oct 25, 2014 10:05 PM
933scotty
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Reply to cojhl2:
Agreeing w/ Sasquatch, Jim Zimmerman told me once (I have a 9U with the issue) that this is almost always caused by either a worn pump (or all of them) and/or the pumps running out of time due to gear lash.
This old girl looks like she has had a lot of fingers in her mismatched looking pumps and all the blue goo bad signs of a butcher but good bottom and tracks ,nice 2S blade just needs attention. Not my first restoration just cant get this slobber issue figured out . gonna be a lot of nights this winter spent on it in the garage
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Sat, Oct 25, 2014 10:13 PM
933scotty
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Reply to 933scotty:
This old girl looks like she has had a lot of fingers in her mismatched looking pumps and all the blue goo bad signs of a butcher but good bottom and tracks ,nice 2S blade just needs attention. Not my first restoration just cant get this slobber issue figured out . gonna be a lot of nights this winter spent on it in the garage
Ran her today for a couple hours went through 2 and a half gallons of motor oil what a mess has to be something major like valve guides or upper oil getting into combustion chambers anybody got a suggestion like I said before it dosent have hardly any blowby to suggest rings or pistons
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Sun, Oct 26, 2014 5:40 AM
drujinin
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Reply to 933scotty:
Ran her today for a couple hours went through 2 and a half gallons of motor oil what a mess has to be something major like valve guides or upper oil getting into combustion chambers anybody got a suggestion like I said before it dosent have hardly any blowby to suggest rings or pistons
is it straight weight or multi-weight oil?
Needs to have straight weight to be proper oil.
I'd open the clutch inspection cover to shine a flashlight down in there to see if any of your motor oil is leaking in there.
Then I would study the front end to be sure none is leaking out.

Once those are eliminated, I would start wondering how much oil is flooding the valve cover.
Reasoning is you keep mentioning it pops occasionally, when it does pop, do you notice a blue smoke ring?

Also if it is indeed slobbering based on as Sasquatch already told you.
Worn Rings or Glazed Cylinders.
Hence your 2.5 gallons could very well be leaking past the Rings which if the engine can't burn, It will blow out the exhaust stack!
Go through the Injection System to verify there is no butchery, then resign yourself to the fact that you may need to address the Cylinders.

Sorry but there is never a simple solution!
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Sun, Oct 26, 2014 6:46 AM
truckun95
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Reply to drujinin:
is it straight weight or multi-weight oil?
Needs to have straight weight to be proper oil.
I'd open the clutch inspection cover to shine a flashlight down in there to see if any of your motor oil is leaking in there.
Then I would study the front end to be sure none is leaking out.

Once those are eliminated, I would start wondering how much oil is flooding the valve cover.
Reasoning is you keep mentioning it pops occasionally, when it does pop, do you notice a blue smoke ring?

Also if it is indeed slobbering based on as Sasquatch already told you.
Worn Rings or Glazed Cylinders.
Hence your 2.5 gallons could very well be leaking past the Rings which if the engine can't burn, It will blow out the exhaust stack!
Go through the Injection System to verify there is no butchery, then resign yourself to the fact that you may need to address the Cylinders.

Sorry but there is never a simple solution!
Maybe one thing to check is your compression in each cylinder. You may notice if one cylinder has failed rings, cracked, or groves all lined up to a certain extent by a slight difference in pressure. In my experience building pulling tractors the rings in many cases have caused the problems in fresh engines. On the flip side if it is more fuel then the timing of the pump, pump sticking, or failure could cause similar situation. Usually you can tell if its oil or a fuel mixture with oil depending on how easy it wipes off. Never really dealt with a Cat with the problems but several John Deeres and IH's that have this happening. Not sure this helps you much but this situation usually takes sometime to narrow down the issue.
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Sun, Oct 26, 2014 7:28 AM
ol Grump
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Reply to truckun95:
Maybe one thing to check is your compression in each cylinder. You may notice if one cylinder has failed rings, cracked, or groves all lined up to a certain extent by a slight difference in pressure. In my experience building pulling tractors the rings in many cases have caused the problems in fresh engines. On the flip side if it is more fuel then the timing of the pump, pump sticking, or failure could cause similar situation. Usually you can tell if its oil or a fuel mixture with oil depending on how easy it wipes off. Never really dealt with a Cat with the problems but several John Deeres and IH's that have this happening. Not sure this helps you much but this situation usually takes sometime to narrow down the issue.
You might start by pulling the valve cover and making sure the oil has a good return to the pan. If it's had Sam Wan working on it in the past and using all sorts of silicone sealant on everything, some may have plugged one or more of the return passages. This would be a good time to check valve clearances too.

If you can find something heavy to drag around for a few hours at wide open throttle and that really makes the engine work hard (the key word is hard), that slobbering might clear up a bit. As has been said, those engines were designed to work, and work hard, not idle for extended periods.

That transfer pump is somewhat known to be problematic, usually caused by dirt/gunk holding the poppet part way open. Then there's the spring behind the poppet, if it's weak or rusty it's time to replace it. Both the poppet and spring are still stocked by Cat so that's no big deal. Either or both of those can cause low fuel pressure and other problems so that should be checked.
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Sun, Oct 26, 2014 6:59 PM
neil
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Reply to ol Grump:
You might start by pulling the valve cover and making sure the oil has a good return to the pan. If it's had Sam Wan working on it in the past and using all sorts of silicone sealant on everything, some may have plugged one or more of the return passages. This would be a good time to check valve clearances too.

If you can find something heavy to drag around for a few hours at wide open throttle and that really makes the engine work hard (the key word is hard), that slobbering might clear up a bit. As has been said, those engines were designed to work, and work hard, not idle for extended periods.

That transfer pump is somewhat known to be problematic, usually caused by dirt/gunk holding the poppet part way open. Then there's the spring behind the poppet, if it's weak or rusty it's time to replace it. Both the poppet and spring are still stocked by Cat so that's no big deal. Either or both of those can cause low fuel pressure and other problems so that should be checked.
Scotty, when you ran it, did you make it work hard? It's one thing to cover the radiator to get the temp up and that's good, but that's not the same as working it hard. You need to work it hard near its capacity for a few hours - for example, dragging round a set of disks. If it doesn't steer easily, you may need to get it somewhere open so you can go at it.
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Sun, Oct 26, 2014 7:21 PM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to neil:
Scotty, when you ran it, did you make it work hard? It's one thing to cover the radiator to get the temp up and that's good, but that's not the same as working it hard. You need to work it hard near its capacity for a few hours - for example, dragging round a set of disks. If it doesn't steer easily, you may need to get it somewhere open so you can go at it.
[QUOTE=Neil;133367]Scotty, when you ran it, did you make it work hard? It's one thing to cover the radiator to get the temp up and that's good, but that's not the same as working it hard. You need to work it hard near its capacity for a few hours - for example, dragging round a set of disks. If it doesn't steer easily, you may need to get it somewhere open so you can go at it.[/QUOTE

I picked up a D2 this summer that slobbered badly after being run only 7 hrs in the last 20 years, mainly just started each year. 4 hrs on a disc in a high enough gear to make it snort, with new fuel mixed in and it cleaned up and runs great with no slobber.
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Mon, Oct 27, 2014 5:23 AM
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