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D2 5J - Engine locked up - Options?

D2 5J - Engine locked up - Options?

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RuralTowner
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5J3750SP original motor (tag matches one on rear case).

Purchased in Sept of 16. Run only a couple times then sat..intent was to aid the old 63 MF101 tractor around the property since it has a hefty dozer blade but never got around to it.

Last run in mid Sept of 2019 after cleaning up the pumps that had gummed up then it sat. I'm in the Fire Lands (temp not actual fire) in the SW corner of AZ where rain of late anymore is beat in rarity only by your choice of mythological beast. When started at the time after sitting for ~3 yrs it had shot a spray of water out the exhaust (rad was full) likely from what little rain had come down & made it's way in through the empty hole in the stack-to-manifold...a manifold which is booger-weld & rust heaved to to begin with. Ran fine but then sat. Didn't get any further.

Now it's needed. Started to go through the fuel system (the thing was always a PITA to start). Had new filters sitting on the shelf for 3 years & come to find out they'd already been serviced sometime recently as it already had the sock. Plan remains to pull the transfer pump to see if the relief is stuck. I expect the pumps to be fouled again so was going to re-align the crank marks before messing with the rack again. Since it has a pinned collar poking out the front of the pulley I put big channel locks vs the belt-tension//fan method. Won't budge. I tried with the main clutch lever both engaged & disengaged. Pony is disconnected. Well ****.

Best bet is the last 5+ years of drizzle + the unicorn of brief moonsoons has gotten just enough inside. Now I DID manage to get a new-still caked in cosmoline injector socket from Squatch last year while he still had that pile of goodies. I can pull the injectors & try adding either MMO or ATF/acetone to lube the cylinders//help break any rust...let it sit a week...then try a pipe wrench + extension to work the crank back & forth.

The extreme is pulling the head...which will have it's own share of to-do issues.
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Thu, Feb 6, 2025 9:26 AM
Potato Wilson
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I’m a new guy on here, and there’s a ton of way more knowledgeable folks than I. But I would soak the cylinders for a while and try some leverage just like you said. And I would also crack the oil drain plug to see if there’s water in the bottom of the pan too. Hopefully she’ll come loose. And the takeaway is always protect your tractor from rain. 😁
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Fri, Feb 7, 2025 8:04 AM
RuralTowner
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My exhaust stack pipe mount can definitely do with some fixing. No way it can come in from the TOP ITSELF since it has the flapper. The base is another matter. Rain here is infrequent enough that windshield wipers are left to decay for a year at a time until the last possible moment since it's wasting money otherwise. That infrequency makes easy to overlook things you plan on making rain tight "one day". Doesn't take much rust to make a cylinder or 2 stick. Can't count how many times I've told myself "I need to fix that stack" only for it to get forgotten.

Soon as the chance is had the soak will begin. I might be able to work my 6' 2" x 235lb frame down between the blade & hyd pump to get access to the drain. Otherwise it's either opening the hydraulics or wedging the control lever back then use the tractor to raise the blade as high as possible then make excessive use of blocks to hold what must be 1000 pounds of guillotine up. Might also take a pliable metal rod & poke down in through the stick hole then see if the end comes back discolored or more wet than it should.
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Fri, Feb 7, 2025 8:54 AM
Breadler
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Reply to RuralTowner:
My exhaust stack pipe mount can definitely do with some fixing. No way it can come in from the TOP ITSELF since it has the flapper. The base is another matter. Rain here is infrequent enough that windshield wipers are left to decay for a year at a time until the last possible moment since it's wasting money otherwise. That infrequency makes easy to overlook things you plan on making rain tight "one day". Doesn't take much rust to make a cylinder or 2 stick. Can't count how many times I've told myself "I need to fix that stack" only for it to get forgotten.

Soon as the chance is had the soak will begin. I might be able to work my 6' 2" x 235lb frame down between the blade & hyd pump to get access to the drain. Otherwise it's either opening the hydraulics or wedging the control lever back then use the tractor to raise the blade as high as possible then make excessive use of blocks to hold what must be 1000 pounds of guillotine up. Might also take a pliable metal rod & poke down in through the stick hole then see if the end comes back discolored or more wet than it should.
I am knee deep in a 1955 5U project, which had a stuck engine (water entered via the cracked exhaust manifold) and stuck clutch. The machine sat for 20-ish years and engine is now free, as is the clutch, however my process went something like this:

1) Attempted to remove the glow plugs, to get some kind of lubricant into the cylinders. I was instantly successful.......in breaking off all of the seized glow plugs. Ugh...
2) I fully committed and removed the head. (not difficult, just tedious due to rusty fasteners) Upon doing so, i immediately discovered the two center cylinders were the issue. Rust was present and they weren't prom queens. I filled all four cylinders with ATF and left it to set. As time (Months) passed, the front and rear cylinders drained through. After 2-3 months, I removed the fluid from the center cylinders and struck the tops of the pistons, with a 2 lbs hammer and an oak spacer. No movement..... I refilled all four cylinders with PB Blaster....and left them to rethink their poor life choices.
3) I decided to embark on the clutch issue. (Thankfully the machine is a late model with the large clutch access plate) Using a 3'-4' Snap-On prybar and being careful to not bend or break anything. I free'd up the over center links for the pressure plate and in the process, rotated the flywheel about 10 degrees.
4) Surprised and basking in celebratory excitement, I added another can of Blaster to the cylinders and slowly (gently) rotated the flywheel back and forth until 360 degrees was of rotation was attained. Add more blaster and several more complete rotations....
5) I used my hone and cordless drill to clean up all four cylinders and am now waiting for the head to return from the machine shop. (Hot tank. Mag, Surface, Valves and new glow plugs. I will also be replacing the injector o-rings with new ones from Cat.)
6) Clutch was disassembled and removed for clean up, etc.....

Good luck!
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Sat, Feb 8, 2025 6:54 AM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to Breadler:
I am knee deep in a 1955 5U project, which had a stuck engine (water entered via the cracked exhaust manifold) and stuck clutch. The machine sat for 20-ish years and engine is now free, as is the clutch, however my process went something like this:

1) Attempted to remove the glow plugs, to get some kind of lubricant into the cylinders. I was instantly successful.......in breaking off all of the seized glow plugs. Ugh...
2) I fully committed and removed the head. (not difficult, just tedious due to rusty fasteners) Upon doing so, i immediately discovered the two center cylinders were the issue. Rust was present and they weren't prom queens. I filled all four cylinders with ATF and left it to set. As time (Months) passed, the front and rear cylinders drained through. After 2-3 months, I removed the fluid from the center cylinders and struck the tops of the pistons, with a 2 lbs hammer and an oak spacer. No movement..... I refilled all four cylinders with PB Blaster....and left them to rethink their poor life choices.
3) I decided to embark on the clutch issue. (Thankfully the machine is a late model with the large clutch access plate) Using a 3'-4' Snap-On prybar and being careful to not bend or break anything. I free'd up the over center links for the pressure plate and in the process, rotated the flywheel about 10 degrees.
4) Surprised and basking in celebratory excitement, I added another can of Blaster to the cylinders and slowly (gently) rotated the flywheel back and forth until 360 degrees was of rotation was attained. Add more blaster and several more complete rotations....
5) I used my hone and cordless drill to clean up all four cylinders and am now waiting for the head to return from the machine shop. (Hot tank. Mag, Surface, Valves and new glow plugs. I will also be replacing the injector o-rings with new ones from Cat.)
6) Clutch was disassembled and removed for clean up, etc.....

Good luck!
I start by soaking each cylinder with a 50:50 mix of ATF and diesel for a month or more, if that doesn't free it up then remove the head and put a couple of cups of 50:50 old sump oil and diesel in each bore, then put a piece of old rag in each bore to act as a wick and light each bore up, that will gently heat the pistons and block, and provide an entertaining fire show particularly at night........ Repeat a couple of times if necessary, with a liberal dose of your favourite loose juice soaking for a week in between.

If that doesn't work, then go for the block of wood on top of the piston and start belting away, just remember the diesel engines will potentially lift cylinder liners up out of the block once the engine spins, so clamp the liners down first with some large washers. I wouldn't be scared to gently pull and push the stuck Cat a few inches in gear, to try and roll the engine, if it is badly stuck, the tracks will just slide.

I was talking to a very smart guy recently with extensive old engine experience, if all my suggestions fail, he then sets up a hydraulic pump to pump oil or grease in on top of the stuck pistons, he said that changes their attitude pretty quickly.

I had a RD6 engine here that was stuck, I had my loose juice in the cylinders for several months without success, I ended up filling it completely with old engine oil and let it soak for a week, putting a big cranking handle on the crankshaft to try and rock it backwards and forwards every day, it took about 150 litres of oil, but that worked. Often it is other driven parts inside a engine that lock up too, like crankshafts, camshafts or timing gears, if the cylinders are not badly rusted, look elsewhere too.
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Sat, Feb 8, 2025 11:14 PM
RuralTowner
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Reply to RuralTowner:
My exhaust stack pipe mount can definitely do with some fixing. No way it can come in from the TOP ITSELF since it has the flapper. The base is another matter. Rain here is infrequent enough that windshield wipers are left to decay for a year at a time until the last possible moment since it's wasting money otherwise. That infrequency makes easy to overlook things you plan on making rain tight "one day". Doesn't take much rust to make a cylinder or 2 stick. Can't count how many times I've told myself "I need to fix that stack" only for it to get forgotten.

Soon as the chance is had the soak will begin. I might be able to work my 6' 2" x 235lb frame down between the blade & hyd pump to get access to the drain. Otherwise it's either opening the hydraulics or wedging the control lever back then use the tractor to raise the blade as high as possible then make excessive use of blocks to hold what must be 1000 pounds of guillotine up. Might also take a pliable metal rod & poke down in through the stick hole then see if the end comes back discolored or more wet than it should.
Engine is free. Got an 18" pipe wrench on the pump collar & a cheat pipe poking out a few feet for it to easily pop loose. Was then able to spin it around a few revolutions where it spun easier & easier each time. To the point now where if I could get enough tension on the bit-too-loose belt that it could spin with the fan. Now just need to tangle with stuck pumps that I at first thought was a slide rod. So those are going to come out & get a soak in parts wash before removing the plungers & doused with PB + skinny plastic or soft brass bore brush.
My concern now...been revisiting Squatch253's series on 5J1113 & have found the lower compartment of my pump housing bone dry so far once cap removed. Wondering now if part of the run trouble I had before might be a worn cam + pump lifters. Ugh. I probably don't even have 2 hrs on the thing since I've had it...most of which was the ridiculous start-up time that should be only a few min @ most (took about 10+ min during the pre-purchase start-up). So any extra wear there is unlikely to have started with me. Was more naive at the time but Squatch has wizened me up some. Fill with oil & get things moving again & check the travel of the lifters.
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Mon, Feb 10, 2025 8:48 AM
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