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D2 4U Throttle Stuck closed

D2 4U Throttle Stuck closed

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Terence McK
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I parked my D24U last November, last week as I was checking her over I realized the throttle would not open. I took the back off the govenor housing and could see nothing wrong, I also pulled the spindle cover off, but could see nothing wrong in there either, and checked the injector pump. Any suggestions as to what could be wrong
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Mon, May 16, 2016 11:42 PM
rmyram
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take the side cover off the injection pump and see if the rack moves, maybe one of the plungers stuck and is holding the rack from moving.
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Tue, May 17, 2016 4:43 AM
ccjersey
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Is the problem in the ratcheting mechanism behind the lever on the side of the governor? I would pull the pin between the linkage and the governor crank lever and see what is actually frozen up.

Have heard of folks that couldn't get any fuel when starting the diesel and finally just gave the throttle a healthy snatch and it came past the detent and into the RUN area of the quadrant.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, May 17, 2016 9:11 AM
Terence McK
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Reply to ccjersey:
Is the problem in the ratcheting mechanism behind the lever on the side of the governor? I would pull the pin between the linkage and the governor crank lever and see what is actually frozen up.

Have heard of folks that couldn't get any fuel when starting the diesel and finally just gave the throttle a healthy snatch and it came past the detent and into the RUN area of the quadrant.
I have taken the side cover off injector pump and the rack will slide. I have also turned the diesel over by hand and watched the plungers as the engine turns.
My next plan is to try a quick snatch of the lever to get it over the detent Thanks for your suggestions. Terence.
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Tue, May 17, 2016 10:05 PM
balldj
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Reply to ccjersey:
Is the problem in the ratcheting mechanism behind the lever on the side of the governor? I would pull the pin between the linkage and the governor crank lever and see what is actually frozen up.

Have heard of folks that couldn't get any fuel when starting the diesel and finally just gave the throttle a healthy snatch and it came past the detent and into the RUN area of the quadrant.
[quote="ccjersey"]Is the problem in the ratcheting mechanism behind the lever on the side of the governor? I would pull the pin between the linkage and the governor crank lever and see what is actually frozen up.

Have heard of folks that couldn't get any fuel when starting the diesel and finally just gave the throttle a healthy snatch and it came past the detent and into the RUN area of the quadrant.[/quote]

I have a D4 7U6435 with a very similar problem. The fuel rack is seemingly stuck closed. I have the cover off the injector pump and can see that all of the pumps are frozen in the up position. The rack is also stuck, does not move back and forth. I have tried to free the pumps and rack with the diesel engine off, and also with diesel engine running and compression closed/run position and fuel open or at least throttle linkage pulled back at the governor. This Cat ran good lasts time it was started, 5-6 years ago. I have read many threads about working the pumps with a screw driver and tapping/beating the pumps and the rack to free them. I have tried all of that, without success... I don't want to beat on them too hard however to break something. I have pulled the pin so that the throttle lever bolted to the air cleaner is disconnected. I am controlling the throttle just with linkage at the governor. I have the small round governor view port on the right side of the governor off, but cannot get a good view of what is happening inside the governor housing if it is still pinned to the fuel rack or not for example. I have taken the cover off the top of the governor and see that is not an access port but a cover to lock down a linkage setting inside the governor housing apparently? I can move the throttle lever/linkage at the governor about 10-15 degrees (from 12 o'clock open to maybe 10 o'clock closed), so I know it is not completely frozen, but I don't know how much travel it should have, maybe 45-60 degrees from full throttle closed to full throttle open?? Maybe I am not over the "detent" discussed in this thread?? Is that the problem? Maybe I should hook the throttle linkage back up and give the throttle lever a firm "snatch"/yank" to get past the "detent"?? Please advise? I'm a new owner, trying to restore this project because my dad had one many years ago when he was a younger man....now passed away.... Thank you for any help.
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Wed, Aug 30, 2017 8:32 PM
ccjersey
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The key to your repair is to free up the pumps. I expect that the best way for you to proceed is to purchase new pumps and replace the stuck ones. You could keep trying to free them by spraying penetrating oil and prying up and down while still bolted to the housing. I would also consider warming the pumps with a heat gun or very carefully with a torch to help break them free.

In any event, once the the pump plungers are free to move up and down (and to twist) the rack can move and you can check that it is free and moves smoothly and easily back and forth, stretching and collapsing the governor spring.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Aug 30, 2017 9:14 PM
balldj
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Reply to ccjersey:
The key to your repair is to free up the pumps. I expect that the best way for you to proceed is to purchase new pumps and replace the stuck ones. You could keep trying to free them by spraying penetrating oil and prying up and down while still bolted to the housing. I would also consider warming the pumps with a heat gun or very carefully with a torch to help break them free.

In any event, once the the pump plungers are free to move up and down (and to twist) the rack can move and you can check that it is free and moves smoothly and easily back and forth, stretching and collapsing the governor spring.
[quote="ccjersey"]The key to your repair is to free up the pumps. I expect that the best way for you to proceed is to purchase new pumps and replace the stuck ones. You could keep trying to free them by spraying penetrating oil and prying up and down while still bolted to the housing. I would also consider warming the pumps with a heat gun or very carefully with a torch to help break them free.

In any event, once the the pump plungers are free to move up and down (and to twist) the rack can move and you can check that it is free and moves smoothly and easily back and forth, stretching and collapsing the governor spring.[/quote]

Thank you for your timely response ccjersey. I have been fighting this problem for awhile and I'm ready to solve it. I know I need to get the pump plungers free. No pump, no fuel right. However, these plungers are shiny and bright like they were just stroking/working yesterday....albeit 6-7 years since I started this engine. I really can't imagine from the way they look that all 4 of them crapped out at the same time. So, my question is whether the position of the rack is what is actually holding them bound in the up stroke, rather than "sticky or corrosion" etc (I've used a can of penetrant on them by now). If they were not tightly bound, like mechanically bound or wedged rather than just sticky, then I should be able to push any one of them down a little bit, except the one on the cam top stroke, or move them up even against spring return pressure. My question then is have you heard or seen where the position of the rack can actually cause all of the pumps to be wedged/bound up, and in turn freeing the rack will in turn unbind the pumps, and allow me to work the pumps free. Is that a possibility, the rack position is holding the pumps bound on the upstroke? I have also tapped on the rack as I said, not hard enough to break it, or to mess up the timing, but it is not moving either, seemingly wedged/bound up as well. Again, I can move the throttle linkage on the governor maybe 10-15 degrees only. Maybe that movement is only what the governor internal spring return will allow?? What should that throttle linkage full travel be expected to be....45-60 degrees maybe? Also, there must be some way to get access to the internal linkage between the governor and the rack, within the governor housing somehow? Otherwise how would you hook up the linkage in a tear down overhaul between pump housing and governor? Could that internal linkage be holding the rack in a bound-up position? The oblong shaped cover on top of the governor housing is not the answer (what is that for anyway it just covers two bolt heads keeping them from turning, are those the linkage bolts?), that cover does not offer a look inside the governor housing. And the small round view port on the right hand side/end of the governor housing is too small and in the wrong access position to work in or to view anything.... thanks for any help on these follow on questions....
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 1:25 AM
8C 361
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Reply to balldj:
[quote="ccjersey"]The key to your repair is to free up the pumps. I expect that the best way for you to proceed is to purchase new pumps and replace the stuck ones. You could keep trying to free them by spraying penetrating oil and prying up and down while still bolted to the housing. I would also consider warming the pumps with a heat gun or very carefully with a torch to help break them free.

In any event, once the the pump plungers are free to move up and down (and to twist) the rack can move and you can check that it is free and moves smoothly and easily back and forth, stretching and collapsing the governor spring.[/quote]

Thank you for your timely response ccjersey. I have been fighting this problem for awhile and I'm ready to solve it. I know I need to get the pump plungers free. No pump, no fuel right. However, these plungers are shiny and bright like they were just stroking/working yesterday....albeit 6-7 years since I started this engine. I really can't imagine from the way they look that all 4 of them crapped out at the same time. So, my question is whether the position of the rack is what is actually holding them bound in the up stroke, rather than "sticky or corrosion" etc (I've used a can of penetrant on them by now). If they were not tightly bound, like mechanically bound or wedged rather than just sticky, then I should be able to push any one of them down a little bit, except the one on the cam top stroke, or move them up even against spring return pressure. My question then is have you heard or seen where the position of the rack can actually cause all of the pumps to be wedged/bound up, and in turn freeing the rack will in turn unbind the pumps, and allow me to work the pumps free. Is that a possibility, the rack position is holding the pumps bound on the upstroke? I have also tapped on the rack as I said, not hard enough to break it, or to mess up the timing, but it is not moving either, seemingly wedged/bound up as well. Again, I can move the throttle linkage on the governor maybe 10-15 degrees only. Maybe that movement is only what the governor internal spring return will allow?? What should that throttle linkage full travel be expected to be....45-60 degrees maybe? Also, there must be some way to get access to the internal linkage between the governor and the rack, within the governor housing somehow? Otherwise how would you hook up the linkage in a tear down overhaul between pump housing and governor? Could that internal linkage be holding the rack in a bound-up position? The oblong shaped cover on top of the governor housing is not the answer (what is that for anyway it just covers two bolt heads keeping them from turning, are those the linkage bolts?), that cover does not offer a look inside the governor housing. And the small round view port on the right hand side/end of the governor housing is too small and in the wrong access position to work in or to view anything.... thanks for any help on these follow on questions....
No doubt that the stuck pumps are what is preventing the rack from moving. Just one stuck pump will keep it from moving. Bear in mind that in addition to going up and down the plungers also rotate. you could try freeing them by tapping very lightly on the gear quadrants.

Better yet and safer might be removing the individual pumps and working on them off the engine. You will not disturb the timing settings doing this but rotating the quadrants in relation to the plungers will.

Good luck,

Tom
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 1:45 AM
ccjersey
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I have a set of pumps off a D6 that are all stuck. Not having any luck freeing them, I simply unbolted them and disengaged the plungers from the lifter yoke to remove as a unit. No worry the plungers will fall out of those and get dinged up! New aftermarket pumps are readily available.

I wonder if there is a way to remove the outlet check valve from the top of these pumps and then use a punch to persuade the plungers to move. I have just assumed that after one was stuck that bad it would leak pretty badly, so I have not tried anything like that. Probably should see how I can open those junk ones up.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 9:02 AM
Andrew
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Reply to 8C 361:
No doubt that the stuck pumps are what is preventing the rack from moving. Just one stuck pump will keep it from moving. Bear in mind that in addition to going up and down the plungers also rotate. you could try freeing them by tapping very lightly on the gear quadrants.

Better yet and safer might be removing the individual pumps and working on them off the engine. You will not disturb the timing settings doing this but rotating the quadrants in relation to the plungers will.

Good luck,

Tom
By your description and as previously mentioned the pump plungers are stuck .
Use a 7/16th spanner and remove the rack. Then with a large screwdriver try and push the plungers up then if they moove try and lever them down.. sometimes they just need a push and they come right. Sometimes they need more help. Get you lever under the forked yoke rather than levering on the toothed quadrant. These plungers are lubricated by the fuel internally so the fuel system should be primed when doing this. With the rack removed the plungers should spin around easily and follow the cam up and down when the engine is rotated. What has happened is the result of the poor quality fuel we now have.
In extreme cases it is possible to remove the injector line. Then unscrew the top out of the individual fuel pump. Then after removing the spring and non return valve use a punch with a flat end and hammer the plunger down.
Hope this helps.
A. K.
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 9:34 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to Andrew:
By your description and as previously mentioned the pump plungers are stuck .
Use a 7/16th spanner and remove the rack. Then with a large screwdriver try and push the plungers up then if they moove try and lever them down.. sometimes they just need a push and they come right. Sometimes they need more help. Get you lever under the forked yoke rather than levering on the toothed quadrant. These plungers are lubricated by the fuel internally so the fuel system should be primed when doing this. With the rack removed the plungers should spin around easily and follow the cam up and down when the engine is rotated. What has happened is the result of the poor quality fuel we now have.
In extreme cases it is possible to remove the injector line. Then unscrew the top out of the individual fuel pump. Then after removing the spring and non return valve use a punch with a flat end and hammer the plunger down.
Hope this helps.
A. K.
Have you tried disconnecting the linkage from the seat? I had the linkage stuck once at the air cleaner. It turned out that the axle was frozen into the bushings.
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 6:33 PM
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