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D2 3J Pony Motor Questions

D2 3J Pony Motor Questions

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frochevy
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It was a nice day today in Kansas so I wanted to start the D2 up and push a stump out and take my son for a ride. I checked the oil on the pony motor and the dipstick looked too clean so I smelled it and it smelled like gas. I drained the oil/gas from the crankcase and refilled with sae 30 weight before starting it. I always turn the gas off to kill the pony after the diesel starts. I've never done much to the pony. Last September I purchased it and after 25 yrs of sitting I cleaned the gas tank and spark plugs and got it running with no issue. Is it possible the carb is flooding while the engine is running? The last time I ran the D2 a friend killed the diesel engine and we had problems getting the pony started, and it could have flooded then.

How do I fix this from happening again? Do I need to clean the carb? I've cleaned many tractor,atv, vehicle, etc carbs, but not one of these. Are there any tricks or anything I need to know about this carb in particular before I pull it?

Are the spark plug wires replaceable or are they part of the mag? The boots/ends aren't in the greatest shape. Also I think the mag is weak. I don't get a bright blue spark all of the time.?

One other question: Should I be concerned with the crank seals knowing that gas was present in the crankcase for what im assuming was a month or more?

Thanks!
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Mon, Feb 15, 2016 10:49 AM
edb
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Hi frochevy,
not unusual for the single pony gas tank shutoff tap to leak between starts. Crud from the tank etc. gets on the seat of the valve and body--some times the body can corrode at the seat and not seal fully too.

Later, in the U Series machines, Cat went to a two tap system to try and get around the problem.
Suggest you disconnect the fuel line beyond the tap and see if it drips and rectify as needed.
I feel if your pony runs well then I would not touch the carby. The problem is in the tap not the carby from the data you have given.

Your pony crank seals should be OK. You will know otherwise if the Pony clutch housing starts filling with pony engine oil or the seal behind the pony flywheel starts to leak.

Eisemann mag spark plug wires should push into the cap on this model mag.
Only ever use solid metal core wires on magneto ignition systems--the mag does not have the output to cope with carbon core wires or the later Resistance type spark plugs.

Usually a thorough cleaning of the mag. points will restore a good spark. Weak spark in one wire may be from a stuck carbon rubbing/pickup brush for that cylinder, you will need to remove the cap and check--could also be from high resistance due to corroded contact at the plug wire into the cap connection--or even a resistance wire on that sides wire only.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Mon, Feb 15, 2016 12:21 PM
ccjersey
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Just change oil. Crank seal will throw oil when crank bearings get loose or oil is diluted or the seal is just worn out. Gas won't make any difference to thevlife of the seal.

New WIRES can be installed. They are WIRE core WIRES ...do you get the impression that them being WIRE is important?

Carb can flood while running, but your gasoline shutoff valve may be seeping. If the engine runs well you might adjust the high speed mixture a little, but you are ahead of the game, no need to rebuild the carb. If it were flooding i expect you would get a lot of black smoke, fouled plugs and low power.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Feb 15, 2016 12:21 PM
frochevy
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Reply to ccjersey:
Just change oil. Crank seal will throw oil when crank bearings get loose or oil is diluted or the seal is just worn out. Gas won't make any difference to thevlife of the seal.

New WIRES can be installed. They are WIRE core WIRES ...do you get the impression that them being WIRE is important?

Carb can flood while running, but your gasoline shutoff valve may be seeping. If the engine runs well you might adjust the high speed mixture a little, but you are ahead of the game, no need to rebuild the carb. If it were flooding i expect you would get a lot of black smoke, fouled plugs and low power.
Thanks for the input!
The Pony seems to run ok when I get it started. It does puff blue and white smoke at times but it doesn't seem to be running rich with black smoke. It doesn't have trouble cranking the diesel engine over in start or run position. The tractor has a little over 5600hrs according to the clock. I would like to get the pony running better in order to be able to start it by hand.

Will I need to remove the mag to clean the points, etc. Are they like normal points where I should check the gap? If so, what is the gap set to?

My Pony Motor gas tank has a glass Sediment bowl like my Allis tractors do. Is this the original setup for the fuel shutoff? Or has this been added/changed? ( I will address the issue and see if it is leaking.)

Spark Plugs- Any thoughts on a replacement spark plug? Is there a good cross-reference for one available at a parts store that is not a Resistor type?

Pony Clutch Housing- Should I check the housing for leaking oil? Is there an inspection cover I can remove and look in?
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Tue, Feb 16, 2016 1:26 AM
gemdozer
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Reply to frochevy:
Thanks for the input!
The Pony seems to run ok when I get it started. It does puff blue and white smoke at times but it doesn't seem to be running rich with black smoke. It doesn't have trouble cranking the diesel engine over in start or run position. The tractor has a little over 5600hrs according to the clock. I would like to get the pony running better in order to be able to start it by hand.

Will I need to remove the mag to clean the points, etc. Are they like normal points where I should check the gap? If so, what is the gap set to?

My Pony Motor gas tank has a glass Sediment bowl like my Allis tractors do. Is this the original setup for the fuel shutoff? Or has this been added/changed? ( I will address the issue and see if it is leaking.)

Spark Plugs- Any thoughts on a replacement spark plug? Is there a good cross-reference for one available at a parts store that is not a Resistor type?

Pony Clutch Housing- Should I check the housing for leaking oil? Is there an inspection cover I can remove and look in?
You do't need to removed the mag for claining the point and they are normal point and gap are .014 to.018 inch and yes your machine should have a sediment glass bowl and the pony cluch housing have a inspection plate on for adjustement cluch and have a drain plug on the end cover
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Tue, Feb 16, 2016 5:22 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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Reply to gemdozer:
You do't need to removed the mag for claining the point and they are normal point and gap are .014 to.018 inch and yes your machine should have a sediment glass bowl and the pony cluch housing have a inspection plate on for adjustement cluch and have a drain plug on the end cover
I'm sure my D4 pony is the same as your D2......I set my points at 0.016....if your not getting a good blue spark I would start with the condenser.....I did the points condenser and carbon brushes on my mag......works wonderfully....as per the burn mark on my knuckle......the sparkplugs on mine were cross refrenced to a ski-doo size plug.......plug wires pull out of the mag cab with a bit of effert........special order I believe.......did a carb rebuild on mine and it runs like a dream....carb is really easy to do....there are certain things to look for depending on your specific carb
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Tue, Feb 16, 2016 6:32 AM
edb
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Reply to Hillbillybjopkr:
I'm sure my D4 pony is the same as your D2......I set my points at 0.016....if your not getting a good blue spark I would start with the condenser.....I did the points condenser and carbon brushes on my mag......works wonderfully....as per the burn mark on my knuckle......the sparkplugs on mine were cross refrenced to a ski-doo size plug.......plug wires pull out of the mag cab with a bit of effert........special order I believe.......did a carb rebuild on mine and it runs like a dream....carb is really easy to do....there are certain things to look for depending on your specific carb
Hi Team,
be very aware that the Eisemann magneto as fitted to the D2, D4 pony engines are designed to run with a 0.020" points gap and not anything less.
Less gap has the effect of advancing the spark and gives the possibility of the engine kicking back when trying to start--less gap also alters the factory setting of the edge gap and so gives a greater possibility of a weaker spark.

There have been instances of people saying they had to time the mag a tooth out to get the points opening timing right to the flywheel MAG mark because they were running less than the specified 0.020" point gap Eisemann have designed these mags to run.

To confuse things the American Bosch mags used on some early/later D2, D4's have points gaps set at 0.014"-0.018"--as others have said above.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Tue, Feb 16, 2016 9:07 AM
frochevy
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
be very aware that the Eisemann magneto as fitted to the D2, D4 pony engines are designed to run with a 0.020" points gap and not anything less.
Less gap has the effect of advancing the spark and gives the possibility of the engine kicking back when trying to start--less gap also alters the factory setting of the edge gap and so gives a greater possibility of a weaker spark.

There have been instances of people saying they had to time the mag a tooth out to get the points opening timing right to the flywheel MAG mark because they were running less than the specified 0.020" point gap Eisemann have designed these mags to run.

To confuse things the American Bosch mags used on some early/later D2, D4's have points gaps set at 0.014"-0.018"--as others have said above.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Thanks for the input! I'll get the hood off and take a look at the mag and check gap/clean points. I'll look into the fuel sediment bowl as well and see if it's leaking. And also inspect/drain the pony clutch housing to make sure nothing has leaked in there.

Thanks for your help! I'll post what I found when I'm able to find some time to work on it!
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Wed, Feb 17, 2016 11:37 PM
Jack
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Reply to frochevy:
Thanks for the input! I'll get the hood off and take a look at the mag and check gap/clean points. I'll look into the fuel sediment bowl as well and see if it's leaking. And also inspect/drain the pony clutch housing to make sure nothing has leaked in there.

Thanks for your help! I'll post what I found when I'm able to find some time to work on it!
If you change the wires, hunt up some metal conductor wire. Resistance wire is death to magnetos.

There is no way you can get gas dilution in your oil unless it comes out of the gasoline tank. (duh) Get a new valve or plumb in a different type valve, or just run with the sediment bowl loose so you can get an idea of how much drip is getting by. Then fix as you like it.
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Thu, Feb 18, 2016 10:24 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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Reply to Jack:
If you change the wires, hunt up some metal conductor wire. Resistance wire is death to magnetos.

There is no way you can get gas dilution in your oil unless it comes out of the gasoline tank. (duh) Get a new valve or plumb in a different type valve, or just run with the sediment bowl loose so you can get an idea of how much drip is getting by. Then fix as you like it.
how I understand it....the carbs on these are a downdraft carb....if there is any leakage in the carb it will end up in your crankcase....that is why ist should be a common practice to run the carb dry to shut off the pony.....I actually disconnected...well.....broke....the mag shut off switch so I had to run it out to shut it off.....if you do that and your still getting gas in the oil....then you have a leaky carb and valve.....I think this is the reason my D4-7U has two petcocks for the gas
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Fri, Feb 19, 2016 8:32 AM
frochevy
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Reply to Hillbillybjopkr:
how I understand it....the carbs on these are a downdraft carb....if there is any leakage in the carb it will end up in your crankcase....that is why ist should be a common practice to run the carb dry to shut off the pony.....I actually disconnected...well.....broke....the mag shut off switch so I had to run it out to shut it off.....if you do that and your still getting gas in the oil....then you have a leaky carb and valve.....I think this is the reason my D4-7U has two petcocks for the gas
I had a little time yesterday evening to tear into the D2. I got the housing that the throttle hooks to, gas tank, sediment bowl, and wiring out of the way to get down to the mag. The fuel valve is definitely leaking when it is"closed". So I will replace it. The gas tank looks to be homeade. They did a fairly decent job at building the tank. I wish they would have lined it. The inside is horribly rusty. I'm trying to decide whether to clean the tank up and out a liner in it. Or I'm also thinking about building one out of stainless and then I wouldn't have to worry about rust anymore. My only concern there is finding the top filler pipe and the outlet in stainless and how much those would cost.

I haven't cleaned the mag up to look for screws, etc. Does the front of the mag come off where the plug wires come out? Is that where I will check points gap?
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Sat, Feb 20, 2016 9:45 PM
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