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crazy thought to smooth out low idel loping

crazy thought to smooth out low idel loping

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Hillbillybjopkr
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so....ive been adjusting the Low Idle screw to no avail..all it seems to do is lessen the shut off detent.....at looking at how the govener kinda works....there is the big spring in the back...that seems adjustable...connected to the linkage that is running on the center of the govener weights... other end connected to the rack......my thought is...if I tighten that spring just a smidge....would that hold the governor more evenly.....last option befor I replace all the injector nozzels.....and I have no idea how to get them out yet lol....
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 8:47 AM
edb
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Hi Team,
will post these scans yet again.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 11:26 AM
ccjersey
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Opening the throttle tightens the spring. You need to figure out how to increase the low idle.

While you may well need new injector "valves" as CAT calls them i don't think they will affect the lope in any way. They are simple to remove, just clean around the line nuts etc and remove lines. Then take a 1" socket and unscrew the hold down nut and remove it. There should be a seal inside the top of the hollow hold down nut that was under the line nut and there should be an o-ring around the outside of the hold down nut. These both keep dirt from accumulating in the crevices, all the sealing is done by clean metal to metal joints.

Once the hold down nuts are off, grab the top of the injector "body" and shake it while pulling up on it. Usually they will come right out of the precombustion chambers, but sometimes you may need to pry with a screwdriver or i have even had to rig a slide hammer puller to get one or two on an engine that had been sitting out in the weather a long time. When you get them out you will see the tip or valve is attached to the end of the adapter body by a coarse loose fitting thread. It is loose to allow fuel to flow through the thread area to reach the tip. If the surfaces are clean, you can gently tighten the tip on the body and test them on a bench tester or even reroute an injector line pointing outward toward the track and attach each one in turn to watch the spray pattern. Be careful and do not get fingers near! You do not want to get fuel injected under the skin. That produces gangrene if not promptly and properly treated.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 11:31 AM
bursitis
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Reply to ccjersey:
Opening the throttle tightens the spring. You need to figure out how to increase the low idle.

While you may well need new injector "valves" as CAT calls them i don't think they will affect the lope in any way. They are simple to remove, just clean around the line nuts etc and remove lines. Then take a 1" socket and unscrew the hold down nut and remove it. There should be a seal inside the top of the hollow hold down nut that was under the line nut and there should be an o-ring around the outside of the hold down nut. These both keep dirt from accumulating in the crevices, all the sealing is done by clean metal to metal joints.

Once the hold down nuts are off, grab the top of the injector "body" and shake it while pulling up on it. Usually they will come right out of the precombustion chambers, but sometimes you may need to pry with a screwdriver or i have even had to rig a slide hammer puller to get one or two on an engine that had been sitting out in the weather a long time. When you get them out you will see the tip or valve is attached to the end of the adapter body by a coarse loose fitting thread. It is loose to allow fuel to flow through the thread area to reach the tip. If the surfaces are clean, you can gently tighten the tip on the body and test them on a bench tester or even reroute an injector line pointing outward toward the track and attach each one in turn to watch the spray pattern. Be careful and do not get fingers near! You do not want to get fuel injected under the skin. That produces gangrene if not promptly and properly treated.
maybe you just need a new spring and adjust it to spec
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 7:17 PM
ccjersey
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Reply to bursitis:
maybe you just need a new spring and adjust it to spec

Problem is NEW is not available and CAT never published the specs to adjust them anyway. Some few folks have tightened the spring slightly to try to make the governor more responsive and to get more effective power out of the engine. Like most things that might be a good idea, in moderation! The ultimate fuel rate is controlled by the torque spring and rack setting but governor response is a big part of productive operation.

I think the lack of response to adjusting the low idle screw counter clockwise means there is a problem with the idle stop and its spring. Probably frozen up and won't flip over from the shutdown position back to the run position so the low idle screw can push it down to bear on the terminal lever that is directly connected to the rack. Any slack or binding in that linkage between terminal lever and rack should be corrected at the same time.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 9:43 PM
Deas Plant.
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Reply to bursitis:
maybe you just need a new spring and adjust it to spec
Hi, Folks.
Here are Edb's scans enlarged and, hopefully, easier to read. Thank you, Eddie, for re-posting them.

[attachment=48348]Governor Operation In All Cat U Series Engines_1_Acmoc.jpg[/attachment][attachment=48349]Governor Operation In All Cat U Series Engines_1A_Acmoc.jpg[/attachment]

Just my 0.02.
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 9:54 PM
Hillbillybjopkr
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let me attempt to clarify......as for the low idle screw....I took the over off and observed what was going on as I moved it....the shut-off detend would drop lower....I could see the rack move ahead a little as I turned it.....the detent "feel" dropped off dramaticly the more I turned it counter clockwise.....to the point I could no longer tell were "off" was....even with adjusting it a lot....it still seems lopy all the way up to 3/4 throttle at least....after the first time I adjusted it...the hi idle seemed really low...way lower than the D4...I was able to bump that up a little no problem....is the "terminal lever" the one that is on the other end of the linkage attached to the rack?...that rides on the govener weights?.....if it is that was slightly bent when I took it all apart to replace the fuel galley O-rings....im gonna yard off the governer this morning and make sure EVERYTHING is free with no binding.....if no improvement....injector valves are coming out....
Thank you EBD and ccjersey

gimme a couple hours and i'll have some results...good or bad....provided the pony dosen' fight me to much this morning.....lol
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Thu, Apr 26, 2018 10:39 PM
ccjersey
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If I am understanding correctly, you succeeded in raising the low idle setting but you still have the hunting/loping even up to 3/4 throttle?

As you adjust the low idle stop down to raise the idle rpm, you will slacken the idle stop spring and loose the detent.

Yes, the governor spring connects the input shaft and crank to the terminal lever that has the rollers that are in contact with the flyweights and connects to the rack by a linkage.

I wonder how yours got bent.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Apr 27, 2018 1:43 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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WE HAVE SUCCESS!!!!!!....so...took the covers off the govener....tweaked things until everything lined up smooth...and the pin bolts went in smooth.....triple check everything was free....pony was very cooperative...once the main started up.....runs smooth as fresh cream.....through out the RPM band.....shes currently runnin at half throttle in front of the shop....no more lopy crap lmao.....THANK YOU GUYS SOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!
out of curiosity....what should top RPM's be....it can't be going over 1500....if it is it isn't by much.....my D4 sounds like it gets up to close to 2000 wide open....it winds up way more than the D2 does
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Fri, Apr 27, 2018 2:24 AM
edb
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Reply to Hillbillybjopkr:
WE HAVE SUCCESS!!!!!!....so...took the covers off the govener....tweaked things until everything lined up smooth...and the pin bolts went in smooth.....triple check everything was free....pony was very cooperative...once the main started up.....runs smooth as fresh cream.....through out the RPM band.....shes currently runnin at half throttle in front of the shop....no more lopy crap lmao.....THANK YOU GUYS SOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!
out of curiosity....what should top RPM's be....it can't be going over 1500....if it is it isn't by much.....my D4 sounds like it gets up to close to 2000 wide open....it winds up way more than the D2 does
Hi HBJ,
good job finding/noting the tight linkage--can see the smile on your dial from here.
If you supply a Serial Number I can give you the High and Low Idle Rpm figures.
A cheap digital auto supply store/eBay Tachometer is an invaluable tool for all engine Governor setting work--no need for fancy expensive mechanical driven adapters for cable or generator driven type Tacho heads.
Binding Gov. linkages are the most common cause of the hunting/loping you experienced.

Woodward UG8 Governors on Gen Sets were notorious for this after rebuild.
Everything needed to be de-burred and aligned just so or they would not perform to design.
Seems after I retired they got sent to Woodward from then on.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Fri, Apr 27, 2018 9:15 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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she is 5U2811...I ordered a laser tach with the sticky reflective targets today.......I went and ran her a bit tonight....did some dozing to lug the engine down and make it work a bit......she seemed strong enough to me....even with a blade full.....but it has to be no more than 1600 rpm's....upon starting.....even after letting it run for a full 3 min under compression with no fuel....I turn the fuel on.....thick plumes of white unburnt fuel smoke....small snort of ether....fires right up......the D4 has never needed ether.....so I know the D2 can break the habit.......now that I am convinced......mechanically wise....we are for the most part...sound......I just need to find engine side tin..and a seat..i have the original back so I can take it in......but no bottom.....currently using 4 folded up horse blankets.....what a lovely ride.....
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Fri, Apr 27, 2018 9:43 AM
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