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Chosing a restoration project

Chosing a restoration project

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janmeermans
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I am just beginning to learn about this organization having joined the new Chapter 16 here in southern CA two weeks ago. I have an interest in "bringing one back" and would like comments on how best to do that. I must stay with one of the smaller tractors for many reasons mostly due to cost and space to work/store it. So I am evaluating restoring an early 1932 Fifteen not running (engine is free) but basically complete or a 1949 D2 4U with both engines running. Obviously, the Fifteen is much older and requires more work but less cost to join the game. I am wondering if age of the tractor affects the future value of a restored machine or is this purely a labor of love and one should not think of future worth. What are some of the things I should consider in making my decision?

Jan Meermans
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 1:08 AM
MARCOTEN
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hello Jan, if its a fifteen from 32 its a small fifteen and there are not many build from these i dont have my book here so i cant tell numbers of it made perhaps somebody can ? so and it makes is a very special tractor, its the updat of the cat TEN , i would go for that one , its small and easy to work on without big lifting devices, also a d2 is nice but much more built does it has a blade on it ?? if yes and its original cat its a big plus.

dont make the "mistake" i made and that was: i had a ten restored it , but in the mean wile i bought 3 fifteens (big fifteens ) but i did a a-z restoration on the TEN so i knew this machine now, the fifteens are all the same but on a biggar scal so i had to do same sort of tractor 4 times,
so i mean do one petrol engine tractor, one diesel, one wheel machine , to keep it interesting
i would like a dw10 now.
any pictures of the fifteen or d2 and we can give more advice
btw do you have dutch roots ? because of your name?
greets Marco
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 2:27 AM
yellow fever
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Reply to MARCOTEN:
hello Jan, if its a fifteen from 32 its a small fifteen and there are not many build from these i dont have my book here so i cant tell numbers of it made perhaps somebody can ? so and it makes is a very special tractor, its the updat of the cat TEN , i would go for that one , its small and easy to work on without big lifting devices, also a d2 is nice but much more built does it has a blade on it ?? if yes and its original cat its a big plus.

dont make the "mistake" i made and that was: i had a ten restored it , but in the mean wile i bought 3 fifteens (big fifteens ) but i did a a-z restoration on the TEN so i knew this machine now, the fifteens are all the same but on a biggar scal so i had to do same sort of tractor 4 times,
so i mean do one petrol engine tractor, one diesel, one wheel machine , to keep it interesting
i would like a dw10 now.
any pictures of the fifteen or d2 and we can give more advice
btw do you have dutch roots ? because of your name?
greets Marco
The tractor (and other machinery) museum at Vista (in your neighborhood) has an adopt-a-Cat program. Makes sense for those of us that are space and equipment challenged. I wouldn't plan on making any money on your project, it's just for fun.
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 5:22 AM
drujinin
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Reply to yellow fever:
The tractor (and other machinery) museum at Vista (in your neighborhood) has an adopt-a-Cat program. Makes sense for those of us that are space and equipment challenged. I wouldn't plan on making any money on your project, it's just for fun.
A Fifteen gains in value when its restored, a D2 gains very little in comparison.
A Fifteen can be loaded on a small trailer and towed with a 1/2ton pickup truck.
A D2 requires a bigger truck and trailer combination to move it.
So not only are you investing in a machine but you are investing in a way to move it also!
Take the Fifteen!
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 6:24 PM
7upuller
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Reply to drujinin:
A Fifteen gains in value when its restored, a D2 gains very little in comparison.
A Fifteen can be loaded on a small trailer and towed with a 1/2ton pickup truck.
A D2 requires a bigger truck and trailer combination to move it.
So not only are you investing in a machine but you are investing in a way to move it also!
Take the Fifteen!
Do you want a Gas or Diesel project? One thing for sure when choosing a tractor for a project, is to start with a tractor that has a good undercarraige on it. If you can find one that has that, it's a great start as the UC is costly to do.-glen
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 8:05 PM
janmeermans
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Reply to drujinin:
A Fifteen gains in value when its restored, a D2 gains very little in comparison.
A Fifteen can be loaded on a small trailer and towed with a 1/2ton pickup truck.
A D2 requires a bigger truck and trailer combination to move it.
So not only are you investing in a machine but you are investing in a way to move it also!
Take the Fifteen!
[quote="drujinin"]A Fifteen gains in value when its restored, a D2 gains very little in comparison.
A Fifteen can be loaded on a small trailer and towed with a 1/2ton pickup truck.
A D2 requires a bigger truck and trailer combination to move it.
So not only are you investing in a machine but you are investing in a way to move it also!
Take the Fifteen![/quote]

You summerize how I was thinking when I posed the question. I would rather have a diesel but a Cat is a Cat I guess!
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 10:18 PM
janmeermans
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Reply to MARCOTEN:
hello Jan, if its a fifteen from 32 its a small fifteen and there are not many build from these i dont have my book here so i cant tell numbers of it made perhaps somebody can ? so and it makes is a very special tractor, its the updat of the cat TEN , i would go for that one , its small and easy to work on without big lifting devices, also a d2 is nice but much more built does it has a blade on it ?? if yes and its original cat its a big plus.

dont make the "mistake" i made and that was: i had a ten restored it , but in the mean wile i bought 3 fifteens (big fifteens ) but i did a a-z restoration on the TEN so i knew this machine now, the fifteens are all the same but on a biggar scal so i had to do same sort of tractor 4 times,
so i mean do one petrol engine tractor, one diesel, one wheel machine , to keep it interesting
i would like a dw10 now.
any pictures of the fifteen or d2 and we can give more advice
btw do you have dutch roots ? because of your name?
greets Marco
[quote="MARCOTEN"]hello Jan, if its a fifteen from 32 its a small fifteen and there are not many build from these i dont have my book here so i cant tell numbers of it made perhaps somebody can ? so and it makes is a very special tractor, its the updat of the cat TEN , i would go for that one , its small and easy to work on without big lifting devices, also a d2 is nice but much more built does it has a blade on it ?? if yes and its original cat its a big plus.

dont make the "mistake" i made and that was: i had a ten restored it , but in the mean wile i bought 3 fifteens (big fifteens ) but i did a a-z restoration on the TEN so i knew this machine now, the fifteens are all the same but on a biggar scal so i had to do same sort of tractor 4 times,
so i mean do one petrol engine tractor, one diesel, one wheel machine , to keep it interesting
i would like a dw10 now.
any pictures of the fifteen or d2 and we can give more advice
btw do you have dutch roots ? because of your name?
greets Marco[/quote]

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes my roots are Dutch as my great grandfather came over in 1867. It is the big FIFTEEN so as you say it is much easier to work on. My hat is off to you in doing 3 FIFTEENS! The D2 is a ag. tractor without a blade.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. Once I take on a project, I know I'll be back to pick everyone's brain!
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Wed, Jul 4, 2012 10:47 PM
MARCOTEN
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Reply to janmeermans:
[quote="MARCOTEN"]hello Jan, if its a fifteen from 32 its a small fifteen and there are not many build from these i dont have my book here so i cant tell numbers of it made perhaps somebody can ? so and it makes is a very special tractor, its the updat of the cat TEN , i would go for that one , its small and easy to work on without big lifting devices, also a d2 is nice but much more built does it has a blade on it ?? if yes and its original cat its a big plus.

dont make the "mistake" i made and that was: i had a ten restored it , but in the mean wile i bought 3 fifteens (big fifteens ) but i did a a-z restoration on the TEN so i knew this machine now, the fifteens are all the same but on a biggar scal so i had to do same sort of tractor 4 times,
so i mean do one petrol engine tractor, one diesel, one wheel machine , to keep it interesting
i would like a dw10 now.
any pictures of the fifteen or d2 and we can give more advice
btw do you have dutch roots ? because of your name?
greets Marco[/quote]

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes my roots are Dutch as my great grandfather came over in 1867. It is the big FIFTEEN so as you say it is much easier to work on. My hat is off to you in doing 3 FIFTEENS! The D2 is a ag. tractor without a blade.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. Once I take on a project, I know I'll be back to pick everyone's brain!
yes it can be one of the latest big fifteen they built : 1932 PV7312-PV7559 , after that it became an updated one called the twenty
pictures from the tractors (for me specialy the 15) are more than welcome here on the board!!
look for original ensign carburator, eisemann magneto, good manifolds and heat box , brass plates on back of seat ,all this makes the tractor more worth and offcourse as statet in other posts the undercarriage is it good? and the 3 clutches(main one and the 2 steeringclutches) are they free??

goodluck on your choise!
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Thu, Jul 5, 2012 1:07 AM
janmeermans
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Reply to MARCOTEN:
yes it can be one of the latest big fifteen they built : 1932 PV7312-PV7559 , after that it became an updated one called the twenty
pictures from the tractors (for me specialy the 15) are more than welcome here on the board!!
look for original ensign carburator, eisemann magneto, good manifolds and heat box , brass plates on back of seat ,all this makes the tractor more worth and offcourse as statet in other posts the undercarriage is it good? and the 3 clutches(main one and the 2 steeringclutches) are they free??

goodluck on your choise!
Marco (?)
When I check www.chriscomachinery.com, I note PV7206 - PV7311 were built in late 1931. So the tractor I am looking at, being PV7207 fits in that timeframe. I am guessing that it would have been built after Dec. 7, 1931 and would have been painted yellow. The mag has already been re-magnetized by the current owner and the carb. cleaned up. He has all the brass plates polished up also. He has all new sheet metal for the seat and new seat cushions. The only two things I can see missing is the throwout bearing which was removed in pieces by the current owner and the broken manifold. I am told I would have to split the tractor to fix the throwout bearing. The steering clutch levers move when pulled. The tractor will have to be dragged onto a trailer then I will see how loose everything is back there. The engine turns using the fan and pushing on the belt. The undercarriage not too bad as the pins are still round with no flat areas. I have attached two pictures- one of the manifold and one of the tractor as it currently sits.
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Thu, Jul 5, 2012 3:12 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to janmeermans:
Marco (?)
When I check www.chriscomachinery.com, I note PV7206 - PV7311 were built in late 1931. So the tractor I am looking at, being PV7207 fits in that timeframe. I am guessing that it would have been built after Dec. 7, 1931 and would have been painted yellow. The mag has already been re-magnetized by the current owner and the carb. cleaned up. He has all the brass plates polished up also. He has all new sheet metal for the seat and new seat cushions. The only two things I can see missing is the throwout bearing which was removed in pieces by the current owner and the broken manifold. I am told I would have to split the tractor to fix the throwout bearing. The steering clutch levers move when pulled. The tractor will have to be dragged onto a trailer then I will see how loose everything is back there. The engine turns using the fan and pushing on the belt. The undercarriage not too bad as the pins are still round with no flat areas. I have attached two pictures- one of the manifold and one of the tractor as it currently sits.
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I think the boat may have been missed here. Working on and restoring any of these will take a dedication of work and money so maybe you should view a few restored examples and figure out which one you would love the best. Learning about the machine, enjoying the process of restoration, and appreciation of the final product are the things that I value most. If $$$ value was the main consideration, we might all become scrap dealers.
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Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:14 AM
MARCOTEN
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Reply to STEPHEN:
I think the boat may have been missed here. Working on and restoring any of these will take a dedication of work and money so maybe you should view a few restored examples and figure out which one you would love the best. Learning about the machine, enjoying the process of restoration, and appreciation of the final product are the things that I value most. If $$$ value was the main consideration, we might all become scrap dealers.
looks very good to me!! i would go for it!
some sheat metal missing from chair and engine, if you are a handy welder you can make a proper pipe for the exhaust or find a new heat box( maybe at logue industries aftermarket casting) only the holes from exhaust manifold are bad/ missing, also aftermarket castings are available ,
mag is not original
handcrank is availeble tru jim zimmerman also other missing parts, not cheap but bettter then not for sale.
this is not a project to do in a few months, offcourse depending on your time , but i did maybe 5 or 6 years to do a a-z restauration of a TEN,
a few pics for you before and after:
[attachment=13595]ten as i bought it 2.jpg[/attachment][attachment=13597]07 (4).jpg[/attachment][attachment=13596]kleiner oud.jpg[/attachment][attachment=13598]DSC01450.jpg[/attachment]
greets Marco
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Sat, Jul 7, 2012 1:55 AM
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