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Cat D2 D3400 Main Bearing Babbitt Separation - What Causes This?

Cat D2 D3400 Main Bearing Babbitt Separation - What Causes This?

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Sasquatch
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I've been working on a D3400 out of an old 5J, this engine had previously sat with straight water in the cooling system and froze hard, destroying the block and head. After we got it home we drained 3+ gallons of water out of the crankcase before any oil came out (have no idea how long it had water in the crankcase but assuming a couple of years anyway). Surprisingly the internals of this engine were still in very good condition both wear-wise as well as very minor corrosion, it looks like the oil pump and pickup tube/screens bore the brunt of the damage. But upon teardown I noticed that two of the lower main bearing inserts had the Babbitt layer flaking off of the backing - see attached pic. All others appeared fine and running clearances were still at the tight end of the spec with crank journals still perfect. I've since found a complete NOS main bearing set to replace these with so I'm not worried there, just wondering what causes this type of deterioration - poor adhesion of the Babbitt during manufacture, water contamination, improper oil?
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Tue, Oct 15, 2019 9:58 AM
edb
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Hi Toby,
my guess from the pic attached and Cat literature with similar pictures of spalled bearing surfaces is Cat say from :- exceeding the expected life of the bearing.

By the wear pattern low on the bearing shell I could suspect excessive clearance from undersize journal or as said above just plain fatigue of the bearing material over many hours of operation.
Lugging by operating in too high a gear when towing etc. may play a part too.

Maybe do some clearance checks and see what you find. Also suggest check the crank for truth, ie. bend, twist, etc.

Google could come up with many pix and other scenarios too.

Interested to see what you can come up with.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Tue, Oct 15, 2019 11:17 AM
wimmera farmer
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Reply to edb:
Hi Toby,
my guess from the pic attached and Cat literature with similar pictures of spalled bearing surfaces is Cat say from :- exceeding the expected life of the bearing.

By the wear pattern low on the bearing shell I could suspect excessive clearance from undersize journal or as said above just plain fatigue of the bearing material over many hours of operation.
Lugging by operating in too high a gear when towing etc. may play a part too.

Maybe do some clearance checks and see what you find. Also suggest check the crank for truth, ie. bend, twist, etc.

Google could come up with many pix and other scenarios too.

Interested to see what you can come up with.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
I know I must be dreaming but it looks like a hammer blow near your thumb. Metal has been displaced to the side.
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Tue, Oct 15, 2019 2:37 PM
Dizzel
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Reply to wimmera farmer:
I know I must be dreaming but it looks like a hammer blow near your thumb. Metal has been displaced to the side.
In the IH world the big v8’s can wipe out cam bearings if sitting for a long time. The recommendation there is to prime the oil system before turning the engine so you don’t wipe out the babbit layer. Were there any chips of babbit in your oil pan?
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Tue, Oct 15, 2019 4:57 PM
Andrew
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Reply to Dizzel:
In the IH world the big v8’s can wipe out cam bearings if sitting for a long time. The recommendation there is to prime the oil system before turning the engine so you don’t wipe out the babbit layer. Were there any chips of babbit in your oil pan?
That looks to me like typical erosion caused by water in the oil.
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Wed, Oct 16, 2019 4:06 AM
Sasquatch
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Reply to Andrew:
That looks to me like typical erosion caused by water in the oil.
Thanks for the replies everybody, I appreciate the help. I'm mainly curious about what caused the damage so as to avoid it happening again, if possible. Some specs from teardown -

Crankshaft endplay .008" (spec .009"-.015", max allowable .020")
Rod bearing clearance, aluminum .007" (spec .0055"-.008", max allowable .013")
Main bearing clearance, Babbitt .006" (spec .003"-.0055", max allowable .012")
Crankshaft main journals measure 2.748"-2.749" or .001" out of round with no taper (new spec 2.749"-2.750" with max. out of round .006", max. wear .007")
Crankshaft rod journals measure 2.623"-2.625" or .002" out of round with no taper (new spec 2.624"-2.625" with max. out of round .006", max. wear .007")

I have not had the crank checked by a machine shop yet for bends, twists, etc. but I do like what I see with the above measurements. Again, I have no idea exactly how long this engine sat with water in the sump but I would guess at least a couple of years from the story the previous owner told me. Even the pistons, pins, and rings show no real signs of wear anywhere and all clearances were still well within new spec. so we decided to find good replacement block and head castings and see if we could take all of the good "insides" combined with new liners, rings, and other minor parts as needed to make a running engine again - we'll see.:crazy:

A few better pics of the old bearings in question, first pic is a better view of the original bearing I inquired about, I like Andrew's description of "erosion" because it appears that something "washed away" some of the babbitt, and the darker discoloration around the missing and cracking material seems to indicate that something was breaking down the Babbitt. The spots that appeared to be hammer blows are sections of Babbitt that have cracked and are shifting away from the backing. Second pic is the other lower shell that began losing material, again both of the bad bearings were lower shells and their upper counterparts still looked pristine. Third and fourth pics are the two bearing sets contrasting the lower damaged shells next to their better upper shells, notice in the third pic the upper shell has visible lines going across it, those are high spots that were in heavier contact with the main journal, you can feel them when you run your finger across the surface - kind of strange to have a textured surface like that on a main bearing.
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Wed, Oct 16, 2019 8:59 AM
ccjersey
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It looks like electrolysis removed some component or impurity of the babbett. Maybe there was some slag that got into the pour.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Oct 16, 2019 7:38 PM
Rome K/G
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Reply to ccjersey:
It looks like electrolysis removed some component or impurity of the babbett. Maybe there was some slag that got into the pour.
Welding on the machine. Not properly grounding close to your weld area will arc bearings.
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Wed, Oct 16, 2019 9:32 PM
bvandragt
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Reply to Rome K/G:
Welding on the machine. Not properly grounding close to your weld area will arc bearings.
I had the same thing in my D4-2T:
[attachment=55749]2013-07-13 024.jpg[/attachment][attachment=55750]2013-07-13 026.jpg[/attachment]
There were rust pits through the bottom of the water jacket where anti-freeze was seeping into the oil but it wasn't enough to notice. There was enough sediment in the bottom of the water jacket to keep the holes plugged somewhat, but after cleaning it out, this is what was left:
[attachment=55751]2013-07-13 028.jpg[/attachment]
After finding this, I assumed that the bearings were dissolved by anti-freeze.
Brian
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Thu, Oct 24, 2019 5:12 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to bvandragt:
I had the same thing in my D4-2T:
[attachment=55749]2013-07-13 024.jpg[/attachment][attachment=55750]2013-07-13 026.jpg[/attachment]
There were rust pits through the bottom of the water jacket where anti-freeze was seeping into the oil but it wasn't enough to notice. There was enough sediment in the bottom of the water jacket to keep the holes plugged somewhat, but after cleaning it out, this is what was left:
[attachment=55751]2013-07-13 028.jpg[/attachment]
After finding this, I assumed that the bearings were dissolved by anti-freeze.
Brian
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Yes, seen it before. Worst case I've seen was Jack up in Hood River Oregon (if I recall right) when he was going through the building of his D311 bio-diesel generating plant. Looked like worms had eaten the bearings. Product of water in the lube oil and acid formation that eats the bearing material.
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Thu, Oct 24, 2019 6:15 AM
magneticanomaly
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Yes, seen it before. Worst case I've seen was Jack up in Hood River Oregon (if I recall right) when he was going through the building of his D311 bio-diesel generating plant. Looked like worms had eaten the bearings. Product of water in the lube oil and acid formation that eats the bearing material.
The area where the grooved steel backing is visible looks like fatigue failure.

But wait! Are these babbitt, or aluminum bearings? I have heard Cat uses aluminum. If so, aluminum pits badly in water...OH ions dissolve it. So I will vote for electrochemical pitting from the water. Also, if plain water w/o corrosion inhibitor was used, maybe it corroded around the liner seals, and there was water in crankcase while machine was operating, which decreased hydrodynamic support and increased load on bearings and caused fatigue, also.

Send the pics to a bearing mfr . like Federal-Mogul, if you can get hold of one of their engineers.
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Fri, Oct 25, 2019 3:29 AM
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