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Cat 22 PTO installation .

Cat 22 PTO installation .

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GrantJ
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I received a PTO last week that a friend brought down from the Brooks show for me. I installed it this morning. It should have been a 1 hour job but it ended up being 3 hours.   The studs all came out and the nuts were rusted to them..  Not at all unusual for rust on a 90 year old part.  I installed the studs after cleaning and put the PTO up to fit.  It is heavy and awkward and I fought that for too long. When it finally slid into place I discovered that the studs were too short.  I could only get the nuts on about half way. I went ahead and tightened it down and will replace the studs one at a time rather than pull the unit again.

 Things that I would recommend!!!

 #1 order the proper gasket. I thought that I had one but I didnt so I made one.

  #2 Order longer studs ahead of time.  The outer part of the studs are 1/2 by 20 TPI. That is the part that needs to be longer.  I dont know what the inner threads are since I discovered the need too late.

  #3When you figure out what the inner thread is, buy some 4 inch bolts of that size and cut the heads off so you can use them as guides to slide the unit into place.It will make the job much easier.  

  I hope that this will save someone a few hours and a few less curse words on installing a PTO or almost any other type of accessory whereyou remove a fairly thin cover plate and add a thicker casting.

                                                                                                                                                   Grant.
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Mon, Aug 15, 2022 7:04 AM
Ray54
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No talk of trouble lining up splines on the shaft to the pully unit, sound like a reasonably good day to me. I have spent hours getting the rear Be-Ge and similar hydraulic pumps to all slide together. No room to just reach in and turn the shaft just a bit.

All very good advice for those that have not done it before.
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Mon, Aug 15, 2022 7:21 AM
neil
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Reply to Ray54:
No talk of trouble lining up splines on the shaft to the pully unit, sound like a reasonably good day to me. I have spent hours getting the rear Be-Ge and similar hydraulic pumps to all slide together. No room to just reach in and turn the shaft just a bit.

All very good advice for those that have not done it before.
Sounds good Grant. When we fitted the pto to my cousin's Twenty Two, it had bolts for the steel cover so we had to order the studs for the pto if I recall correctly
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Mon, Aug 15, 2022 7:37 AM
GrantJ
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Reply to neil:
Sounds good Grant. When we fitted the pto to my cousin's Twenty Two, it had bolts for the steel cover so we had to order the studs for the pto if I recall correctly
The 4 inch bolts with the cut off heads would go a long way toward having the shaft line up with the coupling. I struggled to keep the unit squarely upright so that the coupling would find the shaft. You cant see anything. Sliding it into place on the long bolts would be much easier and much more likely to have the shaft lined up. I took the top plate off but it does not give you any view. I am going to order the proper studs and change them out one at a time.
One project almost scratched off of the list. YIPPEE. Grant.
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Mon, Aug 15, 2022 10:01 AM
juiceman
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Reply to GrantJ:
The 4 inch bolts with the cut off heads would go a long way toward having the shaft line up with the coupling. I struggled to keep the unit squarely upright so that the coupling would find the shaft. You cant see anything. Sliding it into place on the long bolts would be much easier and much more likely to have the shaft lined up. I took the top plate off but it does not give you any view. I am going to order the proper studs and change them out one at a time.
One project almost scratched off of the list. YIPPEE. Grant.
#3 method is used here quite often. I keep a toolbox drawer of different sized "guide pins" made from the long bolts as described. I learned the hard way once trying to fit a BeGe to one of my D4s; I brainstormed and it worked great. Since then I have shared that with some wishing to add some bling bling to the back end of their tractor. Makes life so MUCH easier, as one can do an unit install in a jiffy and no cussing or bruised hands involved. It makes me look like I actually know what I'm doing! Hehehehe.
Thank you Grantj for sharing, a handy bit of advice for sure. JM
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Mon, Aug 15, 2022 8:43 PM
ctsnowfighter
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Reply to juiceman:
#3 method is used here quite often. I keep a toolbox drawer of different sized "guide pins" made from the long bolts as described. I learned the hard way once trying to fit a BeGe to one of my D4s; I brainstormed and it worked great. Since then I have shared that with some wishing to add some bling bling to the back end of their tractor. Makes life so MUCH easier, as one can do an unit install in a jiffy and no cussing or bruised hands involved. It makes me look like I actually know what I'm doing! Hehehehe.
Thank you Grantj for sharing, a handy bit of advice for sure. JM
Dowel pins - do try to cut a slot in the outside end - makes removal much easier with a screwdriver
have an assortment of bolts with "rings" welded to the heads, very handy for lifting attachments -

Don't forget the anti-sieze compound!
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Mon, Aug 15, 2022 9:13 PM
GrantJ
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Reply to ctsnowfighter:
Dowel pins - do try to cut a slot in the outside end - makes removal much easier with a screwdriver
have an assortment of bolts with "rings" welded to the heads, very handy for lifting attachments -

Don't forget the anti-sieze compound!
Yes, on the anti seize . 90 year old rust is almost as strong as welding. Does anyone know what the thread count is on the end of the stud that goes into the case. I want to go to McMaster Carr and order new studs. Grant.
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Tue, Aug 16, 2022 12:41 AM
ctsnowfighter
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Reply to GrantJ:
Yes, on the anti seize . 90 year old rust is almost as strong as welding. Does anyone know what the thread count is on the end of the stud that goes into the case. I want to go to McMaster Carr and order new studs. Grant.
Thread Pitch -
Grant - did you not take a bolt out of those locations that held the cover plate?
Do you have a thread pitch gauge? One of the handiest small tools you can own, along with a caliper to determine diameter.

Just as a guess - they are probably USS threads, but I can only guess.

Do you have set of taps and dies? It is not impossible to make your own studs if they are difficult to find. Start with a bolt and then run threads on the other end.
You can also use the tap to check threads in a hole, just use your fingers to turn it -- it must not be turned with a wrench as you will destroy threads if incorrect.

"keep 'em crawlin"
cts
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Tue, Aug 16, 2022 12:54 AM
Peter C
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Reply to ctsnowfighter:
Thread Pitch -
Grant - did you not take a bolt out of those locations that held the cover plate?
Do you have a thread pitch gauge? One of the handiest small tools you can own, along with a caliper to determine diameter.

Just as a guess - they are probably USS threads, but I can only guess.

Do you have set of taps and dies? It is not impossible to make your own studs if they are difficult to find. Start with a bolt and then run threads on the other end.
You can also use the tap to check threads in a hole, just use your fingers to turn it -- it must not be turned with a wrench as you will destroy threads if incorrect.

"keep 'em crawlin"
cts
Grant,
I took one of my cap screws out to check. The threads are 1/2 - 13. Threads are about 7/8 inch deep but the hole goes into the bevel gear case. This bolt's threads are 1 inch. This 22 did not have any pto so it used cap screws. The one that I took a pto off of did have studs.
Pete
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Tue, Aug 16, 2022 3:21 AM
GrantJ
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Reply to Peter C:
Grant,
I took one of my cap screws out to check. The threads are 1/2 - 13. Threads are about 7/8 inch deep but the hole goes into the bevel gear case. This bolt's threads are 1 inch. This 22 did not have any pto so it used cap screws. The one that I took a pto off of did have studs.
Pete
Yes, I took both a tap and a die to clean the threads on the studs and nuts but the studs came out of the case very easy so I didnt run anything into the case. That is how I knew the outside threads of the studs were 1/2 by 20. I did not realize that I needed longer studs until I had the unit in place so I did not check the threads. It was a fight to get it all lined up so I was not about to pull the whole unit again. Now that I know the threads I will try to order what I need. I started the Cat up this morning and the PTO seems to work just fine. I wont work it until I have the longer studs in place. Thanks Peter. Grant.
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Tue, Aug 16, 2022 5:48 AM
trainzkid88
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Reply to GrantJ:
Yes, I took both a tap and a die to clean the threads on the studs and nuts but the studs came out of the case very easy so I didnt run anything into the case. That is how I knew the outside threads of the studs were 1/2 by 20. I did not realize that I needed longer studs until I had the unit in place so I did not check the threads. It was a fight to get it all lined up so I was not about to pull the whole unit again. Now that I know the threads I will try to order what I need. I started the Cat up this morning and the PTO seems to work just fine. I wont work it until I have the longer studs in place. Thanks Peter. Grant.
a lot of suds will have a course thread one end and a fine thread the other dont ask me why i have know idea.
but most threads on these old cats are sae threads. an yes a couple of thread pitch guages one of each for metric, sae and whitworth along with a comprehensive tapping chart comes in handy. i have a very good guide book written by tubal cain covering drills and threads and it has a comprehensive selection of charts for various threads drills and conversions for drills even in letter sizes to metric and imperial.
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Tue, Aug 16, 2022 2:42 PM
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