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Cat 10 Will Not Run. Please Help!!!

Cat 10 Will Not Run. Please Help!!!

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mah2424
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I have a Cat Ten that has not run in at least fifteen years. The motor turns freely. I pulled the head off to free a stuck valve. The pistons seem to have very little wear. I sent the carburetor to Mr. Campbell to be professionally rebuilt. I also sent the magneto to Roy's Magneto to be rebuilt. I have fire to the spark plugs. The carburetor had fuel coming out of the petcock at the bottom of the air intake pipe at first. I have been trying to pull start the crawler. I get white smoke from the exhaust. It had two small backfires at different times. The exhaust pipe is wet. It is putting out alot of white smoke while the engine is turning. What should I check and fix? Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge!!!

Sincerely,

Marcus Horne
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 7:32 AM
side-seat
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Is the mag installed correctly (timed)? Plugs fouled from flooding. Rings stuck from sitting giving it poor compression.
If everything is right you only need to choke it turn it once or twice and she'll fire.
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 7:41 AM
Barstart
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Reply to side-seat:
Is the mag installed correctly (timed)? Plugs fouled from flooding. Rings stuck from sitting giving it poor compression.
If everything is right you only need to choke it turn it once or twice and she'll fire.
I agree! Mag timing is off.
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 8:47 AM
mah2424
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Reply to Barstart:
I agree! Mag timing is off.
Thanks for the help!!! I will check the timing. I have a copy of the ten instruction manual from Caterpillar, but it is not totally clear. The picture for finding TDC on the pulley is blurry. Is the mark on the crankshaft pulley clear to see? Also, am I supposed to align this mark with the raised piece on the left side of the block? To check that the exhaust valve is just closing, is it easiest to see through the side inspection plate? Is the exhaust valve closest to the front, or to the back? After I have TDC determined, I would guess that the rotor should be pointed to the No#1 spark plug wire. Could the magneto be 180 degrees out of time? How would I know? Thank you again for all of your help!!!
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 9:12 AM
tailseat15
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Reply to mah2424:
Thanks for the help!!! I will check the timing. I have a copy of the ten instruction manual from Caterpillar, but it is not totally clear. The picture for finding TDC on the pulley is blurry. Is the mark on the crankshaft pulley clear to see? Also, am I supposed to align this mark with the raised piece on the left side of the block? To check that the exhaust valve is just closing, is it easiest to see through the side inspection plate? Is the exhaust valve closest to the front, or to the back? After I have TDC determined, I would guess that the rotor should be pointed to the No#1 spark plug wire. Could the magneto be 180 degrees out of time? How would I know? Thank you again for all of your help!!!
Here goes,
First, you must make sure you have your timing marks visible. If they are greasy, clean with some carb/brake cleaner and a rag. If they are not visible because they are painted over, I like to clean them off with a scotchbrite pad and some oil. This way you can sand off the paint, and not the metal/marks. They might be faint (lightly stamped), so don't take a wire wheel or sandpaper to them or you might obliterate them.

Second, the front valve is exhaust.

Third, yes you can have the timing 180 degrees off. Make sure you are on TDC when you time the mag. You can take the valve insp. covers off to help. Another good way to tell I like to use is pull all 4 plugs so the engine turns easily. Then you can cover the #1 plug hole with a finger and slowly turn the engine untill you feel compression build. This will get you close, then you can use the timing marks to get dead on. Or if the hood and tank are off, you can watch through the plug hole and see the valves and piston working to get there.

Forth, I didn't see what type of mag you are using. Depending on which one it is, they have different locations/ways to line them up to time. There is usually a sight window with a special gear tooth to line up, or an inspection cover with a half tooth, or some way to line the mag up for #1 to time. This is important if you have a replacement mag and not an origional as the manual instructions won't match. You can't just look when the rotor is close to #1, you have to have the timing gear perfectly lined up for this to work.

And be sure to pay attention when you are cranking to start, esp. after re-timing bacause you may well have the engine pop on you if its off a little bit- don't want to break an arm. And if you're pull starting it, be sure not to pull from the radiator support and break it like all these little tractors seem to have had happen to them along the way.

Hope this makes sense and helps.
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 9:34 AM
Barstart
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Reply to tailseat15:
Here goes,
First, you must make sure you have your timing marks visible. If they are greasy, clean with some carb/brake cleaner and a rag. If they are not visible because they are painted over, I like to clean them off with a scotchbrite pad and some oil. This way you can sand off the paint, and not the metal/marks. They might be faint (lightly stamped), so don't take a wire wheel or sandpaper to them or you might obliterate them.

Second, the front valve is exhaust.

Third, yes you can have the timing 180 degrees off. Make sure you are on TDC when you time the mag. You can take the valve insp. covers off to help. Another good way to tell I like to use is pull all 4 plugs so the engine turns easily. Then you can cover the #1 plug hole with a finger and slowly turn the engine untill you feel compression build. This will get you close, then you can use the timing marks to get dead on. Or if the hood and tank are off, you can watch through the plug hole and see the valves and piston working to get there.

Forth, I didn't see what type of mag you are using. Depending on which one it is, they have different locations/ways to line them up to time. There is usually a sight window with a special gear tooth to line up, or an inspection cover with a half tooth, or some way to line the mag up for #1 to time. This is important if you have a replacement mag and not an origional as the manual instructions won't match. You can't just look when the rotor is close to #1, you have to have the timing gear perfectly lined up for this to work.

And be sure to pay attention when you are cranking to start, esp. after re-timing bacause you may well have the engine pop on you if its off a little bit- don't want to break an arm. And if you're pull starting it, be sure not to pull from the radiator support and break it like all these little tractors seem to have had happen to them along the way.

Hope this makes sense and helps.


Or better yet, you get an assistant to cover the hole, and hold onto the spark plug lead for you. 😆
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 9:39 AM
mah2424
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Reply to Barstart:


Or better yet, you get an assistant to cover the hole, and hold onto the spark plug lead for you. 😆
I can't thank ya'll enough for all of your help. The magneto is an Eismann AV4. The machine is PT3072, I believe making this a 1929 model. I don't know if this is the original magneto for this machine. I took it off at the slotted coupler before the magneto whenever I sent it off. I don't know where to look for the tooth or inspection plate. You are right about the radiator bracket as this one is also broken. I connected a small chain around the connection of the angle iron track bracket to the frame. I then connected a long chain to the center of this so that I was pulling from the center. I will try to start again by hand after retiming. Should I follow the advice of the manual by turning the handle over the top? I would rather not break my arm!!! As you probably can tell, I have never worked with a Cat before. Thanks again.
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 9:53 AM
Steve A
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Reply to mah2424:
I can't thank ya'll enough for all of your help. The magneto is an Eismann AV4. The machine is PT3072, I believe making this a 1929 model. I don't know if this is the original magneto for this machine. I took it off at the slotted coupler before the magneto whenever I sent it off. I don't know where to look for the tooth or inspection plate. You are right about the radiator bracket as this one is also broken. I connected a small chain around the connection of the angle iron track bracket to the frame. I then connected a long chain to the center of this so that I was pulling from the center. I will try to start again by hand after retiming. Should I follow the advice of the manual by turning the handle over the top? I would rather not break my arm!!! As you probably can tell, I have never worked with a Cat before. Thanks again.
where r u located, I use Roys magneto--Mikes a good guy--might be able to help
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 10:47 AM
tailseat15
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Reply to Steve A:
where r u located, I use Roys magneto--Mikes a good guy--might be able to help
The service manual details the timing procedure better than I can. If you only have the operator's instruction book it probably doesn't say how to time. Hopefully you have a copy of the Service Book. If not I can help you out some more when I'm not so tired.

I'll second the location request- if you're close enough, I'll help in person better than I can online.

There's more than one way to safely crank these tractors, but basically I like to make sure to NEVER wrap my thumbs around the crank handle, only lift the handle (digits underneath the handle) so that if the engine pops, the hand crank can raise up out of your hands and you can pull back out of the way, without getting in the way of the hand crank. The Instruction Book tells about it pretty well, and I'm sure others here can tell you better than I can about this as well.

I can't help you right now about the exact place to look for the timing marks on your mag right now, I need to go look at one again to remember. Perhaps someone else can help with that whose memory is a little sharper on that model.
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Sat, Nov 12, 2011 1:34 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to tailseat15:
The service manual details the timing procedure better than I can. If you only have the operator's instruction book it probably doesn't say how to time. Hopefully you have a copy of the Service Book. If not I can help you out some more when I'm not so tired.

I'll second the location request- if you're close enough, I'll help in person better than I can online.

There's more than one way to safely crank these tractors, but basically I like to make sure to NEVER wrap my thumbs around the crank handle, only lift the handle (digits underneath the handle) so that if the engine pops, the hand crank can raise up out of your hands and you can pull back out of the way, without getting in the way of the hand crank. The Instruction Book tells about it pretty well, and I'm sure others here can tell you better than I can about this as well.

I can't help you right now about the exact place to look for the timing marks on your mag right now, I need to go look at one again to remember. Perhaps someone else can help with that whose memory is a little sharper on that model.
I know very little about 10's but my Eisemann listing shows they used a GV4 magneto that looks like this. Don't know if that's what they started with or not. Sorry I don't have timing instruction info.
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Sun, Nov 13, 2011 1:28 AM
mah2424
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I know very little about 10's but my Eisemann listing shows they used a GV4 magneto that looks like this. Don't know if that's what they started with or not. Sorry I don't have timing instruction info.
It's ALIVE!!!! Thank you everyone for your immense and helpful knowledge!!!! I had the magneto 180 degrees out. I was able to pull start it today. It ran but would not idle down properly and ended up dying when I tried to drive it. I talked with Mr. Campbell and found out that I need to set the adjustments much richer. Unfortunately, whenever I went out to restart it, I noticed antifreeze dripping from the exhaust manifold of the No 1 cylinder. I hope that I did not torque the head bolts tight enough when I put in the new head gasket and blew it. When I had the head off, I had a huge amount of rust scale including very large chunks come out of the head. I just might be looking for a (new to me) head. I will try to get the head off very soon to find the answer. Thanks again for being sooo nice and helping me.
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Sun, Nov 13, 2011 4:05 AM
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