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Cat 10 oil pressure

Cat 10 oil pressure

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Member2103
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After several years of work got my Ten PT896 ready to start. Cranked a few times and it fired off. Sounded good and had oil pressure on the gauge, (origional gauge; it was also leaking just a little at the fitting behind it) I shut it off after a couple of minutes to address a couple of things. Again started it and ran it for a couple of minutes. Did this a couple of more times taking care of a couple of water leaks, finishing up the fuel lines, ect. Sat morning I started it and decided to let run for a while to break everything in. After about ten minutes I walked out of the shop, came back 5 minutes later and started to hear a clicking sound. At first I thought it was the magneto, But much to my horror discovered no oil pressure on the gauge. I shut it down right away. Checked the oil at dipstick, took the oil line off at the block, started it just for a few seconds, no oil. Took the valve covers off and had some oil but I feel not enough. The motor was gone through by a local engine shop, new valves, rings, ect...They had never seen a motor like this, but they took an interest in it , did the necessary research, and I felt good that they did a good job. Any suggestions on what my next step should be?? Thanks, Mark
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Tue, Jul 8, 2014 3:07 AM
brewzer
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Sounds like it could be the oil pump.
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Tue, Jul 8, 2014 7:31 AM
Steve A
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Reply to brewzer:
Sounds like it could be the oil pump.
What a bummer, All I can think of is to drop the oil pan and take a look.
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Tue, Jul 8, 2014 8:25 AM
drujinin
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Reply to Steve A:
What a bummer, All I can think of is to drop the oil pan and take a look.
All was Hot Tanked, Cleaned, Machined and Re-Assembled carefully in a clean environment.
My first guess is that you didn't take the oil pump apart?
First thought is that there is a piece of Crud/Crap holding the Pressure Bypass open?
Second thought is Bypass Spring failed due to rusty broken coils?
Third thought is Drive Key on Pump Gears sheared due to a piece of Crud/Crap?
Definitely Pan dropping time!
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Tue, Jul 8, 2014 6:52 PM
Pat in WI
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Reply to drujinin:
All was Hot Tanked, Cleaned, Machined and Re-Assembled carefully in a clean environment.
My first guess is that you didn't take the oil pump apart?
First thought is that there is a piece of Crud/Crap holding the Pressure Bypass open?
Second thought is Bypass Spring failed due to rusty broken coils?
Third thought is Drive Key on Pump Gears sheared due to a piece of Crud/Crap?
Definitely Pan dropping time!
When we rebuilt my TEN engine, we tested the oil pump and made sure it was delivering a good volume and pressure prior to installing. Those pumps are adjustable via a thumb screw. So hopefully your engine builder didn't set it in the wrong direction without testing. Mine has excellent volume and about 15 to 20psi when hot.

Pat
Pat in WI
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Tue, Jul 8, 2014 8:36 PM
neil
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Reply to Pat in WI:
When we rebuilt my TEN engine, we tested the oil pump and made sure it was delivering a good volume and pressure prior to installing. Those pumps are adjustable via a thumb screw. So hopefully your engine builder didn't set it in the wrong direction without testing. Mine has excellent volume and about 15 to 20psi when hot.

Pat
Hi Pat, how did you test it? I wouldn't mind doing the same with my D2 oil pump if it's easily accomplishable out of the engine.
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Tue, Jul 8, 2014 9:56 PM
MARCOTEN
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Reply to neil:
Hi Pat, how did you test it? I wouldn't mind doing the same with my D2 oil pump if it's easily accomplishable out of the engine.
i tested it also when engine was apart.
i took it of, put in a bucket of new engine oil, and i installed a pressure gauge, but this engine oil it a bit too thick i think cause i screwed pressure back as i see the pressure was too high, but now installed back in tractor the pressure is a bit too low when idling and i want to pull the pan and increase the pressure a bit with the screw.
so i would suggest use diesel in a bucket to check pressure ,as this is the same viscosity as hot engine oil.
i used a handdrill machine for turning it.
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Wed, Jul 9, 2014 1:45 AM
Member2103
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Reply to MARCOTEN:
i tested it also when engine was apart.
i took it of, put in a bucket of new engine oil, and i installed a pressure gauge, but this engine oil it a bit too thick i think cause i screwed pressure back as i see the pressure was too high, but now installed back in tractor the pressure is a bit too low when idling and i want to pull the pan and increase the pressure a bit with the screw.
so i would suggest use diesel in a bucket to check pressure ,as this is the same viscosity as hot engine oil.
i used a handdrill machine for turning it.
Yes , I guess it is pan dropping time. On a search on the subject there was a thread about a 15 that had no oil pressure due to a plug left out of the camshaft. Does a Ten have the same type camshaft, and this plug?. The fact that I had oil pressure at first seems to rule this out, but I wonder. Thanks, Mark
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Wed, Jul 9, 2014 2:49 AM
Tractor-Doctor
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Reply to Member2103:
Yes , I guess it is pan dropping time. On a search on the subject there was a thread about a 15 that had no oil pressure due to a plug left out of the camshaft. Does a Ten have the same type camshaft, and this plug?. The fact that I had oil pressure at first seems to rule this out, but I wonder. Thanks, Mark
Hi, I think the post you were referring to was mine on my Ten. The fellow I bought it from rebuilt the engine before I bought it but it had never been started. After I got it running it had no oil pressure but would pump oil out of the oil gauge port but with no pressure. What I found after dropping the pan and pulling the front of the engine apart is the camshaft is hollow. The flow of oil goes inside the camshaft and exists thru the holes on the camshaft journal to lube the camshaft bearing surface. How I fixed mine instead of pulling the camshaft out I just TIG welded a piece of sheet metal to the nut that holds the camshaft gear on. Here is an easy way to trouble shoot it after you drop the pan down. Remove the oil pump and check it out. If it is ok remove the pipe that runs from the oil pump to the block. Take a rubber tipped air gun and blow air thru the fitting in the block that the pipe was attached too. Listen. If the plug is gone out of the end of the camshaft you will here massive amounts of air coming out from the front of the engine by the crank gear. Hope this helps you. I know I was scratching my for a while trying to figure out what was wrong with my engine.
Jim
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Wed, Jul 9, 2014 3:47 AM
Pat in WI
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Reply to Tractor-Doctor:
Hi, I think the post you were referring to was mine on my Ten. The fellow I bought it from rebuilt the engine before I bought it but it had never been started. After I got it running it had no oil pressure but would pump oil out of the oil gauge port but with no pressure. What I found after dropping the pan and pulling the front of the engine apart is the camshaft is hollow. The flow of oil goes inside the camshaft and exists thru the holes on the camshaft journal to lube the camshaft bearing surface. How I fixed mine instead of pulling the camshaft out I just TIG welded a piece of sheet metal to the nut that holds the camshaft gear on. Here is an easy way to trouble shoot it after you drop the pan down. Remove the oil pump and check it out. If it is ok remove the pipe that runs from the oil pump to the block. Take a rubber tipped air gun and blow air thru the fitting in the block that the pipe was attached too. Listen. If the plug is gone out of the end of the camshaft you will here massive amounts of air coming out from the front of the engine by the crank gear. Hope this helps you. I know I was scratching my for a while trying to figure out what was wrong with my engine.
Jim
Neil,

We spun the pump over with an electric drill. The pump was plumbed into and aluminum metering block that reduced the output side down to a series of .125" holes and then returned to the oil source. The metering block had an adjustable flow limiter and gauge. Limiter would open up or block those .125" holes. I believe there were 8 or 10 holes total. This was all homemade by the engine builder. It was very close to the final output once the pump was installed on the engine. We ran the engine in a test stand and did have to drop the pan one time to adjust the pressure just a few psi to get what we wanted. It was just a method to put a load on the pump...try to simulate engine passages.

Pat
Pat in WI
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Thu, Jul 10, 2014 8:51 PM
Member2103
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Reply to Pat in WI:
Neil,

We spun the pump over with an electric drill. The pump was plumbed into and aluminum metering block that reduced the output side down to a series of .125" holes and then returned to the oil source. The metering block had an adjustable flow limiter and gauge. Limiter would open up or block those .125" holes. I believe there were 8 or 10 holes total. This was all homemade by the engine builder. It was very close to the final output once the pump was installed on the engine. We ran the engine in a test stand and did have to drop the pan one time to adjust the pressure just a few psi to get what we wanted. It was just a method to put a load on the pump...try to simulate engine passages.

Pat
Removed the engine, dropped the oil pan. Discovered the pin holding one of the oil pump gears came out. It jammed the gears, broke the gear mating with the camshaft and also the housing holding the pump shaft. The engine running without oil pressure also damaged two of the rod bearings. So, I'm starting over again, rebuilding the engine. The oil pump was taken apart when the engine was rebuilt last year. I guess the pin was not put back correctly. The shop that did the rebuild shut down, so I might just do it myself. Will probably have questions ahead. Just glad to have this resourse. Thanks, Mark
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Fri, Jul 25, 2014 5:21 AM
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