Brought home a pair of D2's

All,

About a month ago I picked up two D2's. Now that I have them I am not quite sure what I am going to do with them (shhhh.... don't tell my wife). I really was only looking for one dozer but the gentlemen that had these for sale really wanted them to go together. Why buy one, when you can buy two at twice the price. I was fortunate that he had the D2 service manual, D311 service manual, and the D2 parts manual. If I just had the operating manual I'd have the entire set. I also got the 5 gallon greaser.

For those keeping score at home, here is what I have:

5U 484
Previously lived on a muck farm
20" track plates, no blade, drawbar only, seat tank, electric start pony motor
It has what I believe to be a non-Caterpillar hydraulic pump mounted on the front (likely to operate tillage and harvesting equipment)
9303 hours on the meter
pony motor clutch broke
pony runs, diesel runs, but without a working pony clutch you have to pull start
steering clutches are free
I'm not an expert of undercarriage, but I'd say 75%.

5U 2191
Not sure of its history, but I know it's been in the area for the last 15+ years
16" track plates, blade, drawbar only, seat tank, electric start pony motor
7496 hours on the meter
According to an old invoice tucked away in one of the books it got sleeves and pistons on 2/19/79
The starter pinion and the gear it meshes with is shot
I have been able to start the diesel with the pony motor twice before the starter gears gave up the ghost
Both steering clutches are froze up, currently soaking in diesel
I'd guess 50% undercarriage

The first thing I did when I got them is replace the pony carb floats in both units. Both floats were beyond shot. I soaked the pony motor clutch of 484 in diesel. In the process of trying to free it up I broke something. Now the clutch lever moves freely, but clearly is not actuating the clutch release mechanism. Looks like it's quite a job to just get the pony clutch assembly out. Why on Earth Cat designed it in such a way that you have to lift the pony up 2" before you can remove the clutch assembly is beyond me. I was in the process of trying to free the steering clutches for 2191 when the starter gears gave out. So, now I have to try and track down a good used replacement gear as well as get a new starter pinion. I haven't called Cat yet to see IF they are available or how proud they are of them. I was really hoping the starter would hold out until Spring. I guess I should have crossed my fingers. The pony clutch works, but has issues. The clutch lever doesn't over center, so you have to hold it. The shaft engaging lever wants to pop out about every revolution of the diesel, so you have to hold that too. The other downside to 2191 is that I noticed the other day the main frame casting where the left side undercarriage bolts on is half broken. Someone tried to (poorly) braze it together and not surprising that failed too. They didn't get it hot enough so the brazing is just gooped on the outside and never penetrated the crack. It's going to be quite a while before I get enough ambition to repair that, unless I decide to sell it as parts before then. Even though 484 has more hours showing on the meter it is definitely the better tractor. I imagine it's because 1) it was better cared for, and 2) it probably never had a blade so it didn't get run into large objects at high speed. We pull started it to load and it had quite a spray of oil under the hood. I need to find that leak before I fire it up again. If I can get the pony clutch fixed it will be a good unit and a lot of fun.

Aaron,
3 tractors, 3 yard cars, and now 2 D's all happily living with me in Alto, MI

[quote="AaronH"]All,
... Why on Earth Cat designed it in such a way that you have to lift the pony up 2" before you can remove the clutch assembly is beyond me...[/quote]

And why they crammed the governor housing so close to the pony clutch housing, and bolted everything so close to the diesel engine block, and made the pony mounting fasteners almost impossible to get a wrench on. Sadists all.

[quote="AaronH"]All,
... Why on Earth Cat designed it in such a way that you have to lift the pony up 2" before you can remove the clutch assembly is beyond me...[/quote]

And why they crammed the governor housing so close to the pony clutch housing, and bolted everything so close to the diesel engine block, and made the pony mounting fasteners almost impossible to get a wrench on. Sadists all.

Hi Team,
as has been mentioned many times over the years, a white dust/lab coat, as depicted in the Service Manual pix of the Cat Technician so clad could do anything with little trouble--LOL.
A 3/8" drive 9/16" close coupled universal joint socket (8H8564) is a big help to get to those pesky pony mounting bolts at the back of the mains cyl. block.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

I also learned the joy involved to remove the pony carb. You have to take about 6 things off just to be able to get to the bolts. Even then I had to grind an old wrench down to get enough clearance in order to remove the nuts from the carb mounting studs. This thing is about as bad to work on as a forklift. You have to have hands the size of a 10 year old to work on my Clark C500-80.

This white coat that you are talking about, how does one go about obtaining one of these magical cloaks? I've looked all though my parts book and cannot find a part number to order. It's not one of those white jackets that you wear backwards and have to ask someone for help to tie the sleeves behind your back is it? 😉

I've wanted a dozer for 10+ years, now I have two. Becareful what you wish for they say...

Aaron over and out......

Here are some pictures of the units.

[attachment=20155]IMG_20131021_181017_137-smaller.jpg[/attachment][attachment=20156]IMG_20131021_181043_091-smaller.jpg[/attachment][attachment=20157]IMG_20131021_181109_213-smaller.jpg[/attachment][attachment=20158]IMG_20131021_181122_224-smaller.jpg[/attachment][attachment=20159]IMG_20131021_181144_329-smaller.jpg[/attachment][attachment=20160]IMG_20131021_181203_278-smaller.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=20153]IMG_20131021_180950_146.jpg[/attachment][attachment=20154]IMG_20131021_181004_115-smaller.jpg[/attachment]

Hi Aaron,
welcome to the joys of these old clunkers. Your starter pinion woes will be from a lack of maintenance. Once they go out of adjustment, the operator has to be rough with them to get the engine started, and it all just goes downhill from there. But, if in good nick, they will hold out seemingly forever. That model of tractor has plenty that are 75 years old-ish and still on the same starting parts.
The good news is that the pinion parts are just about all available new from Cat, and the ones that they charge like wounded bulls for are also available in good condition on the second-hand market - just list your desired parts on the For Sale page on this forum and you'll be golden. I got to Cat for new stuff like bearings, seals, locking tabs, etc., because they're typically not too hot and you know you're getting it back to spec. I've fixed up three of those starting pinion arrangements in the last three years and although they're not installed yet, I can tell from the easy clean movement that they're in good shape (the rusted main engines are a different matter...)
If you're going to fix, start with the easiest one to get going - sounds like 484. I'd put the effort into fixing that starting pinion up well because that can make all the difference between a pig and an easy-to-use machine.

Cheers,
Neil.

Update on ol' 2191. Last night I adjusted the brakes to give me a lot more pedal. I also adjusted the clutch levers all of the way out per the instructions from other threads on this forum. The starter gears gave out yesterday, so that is as far as I got. Today I decided to give rope start a try. Its the only option for some of you guys, so I figured what the hey. I got the pony running after about 5 pulls and was able to start the main motor as well. One thing I noticed is that the starter pinion will stay engaged to the diesel flywheel when I have the compression release open. Must be the dogs and springs are too weak to hold when the compression release is closed. Anyway, once I got the diesel running the right clutch was working. Either it freed up or was just worn out of adjustment. The left is still stuck. I pushed some dirt with all sorts of brake and clutch combinations with no luck. Have to keep trying. I imagine its like others have said that the right clutch gets more use because your left hand is busy running the main clutch, right hand dominant people, and people are used to grabbing tractor hand clutches that are on the right.

That is all.
Aaron over and out......