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beginner questions

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cab
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Quick couple of questions for my D8 36A.

Should I be cranking until oil pressure registers before giving it fuel at startup? Decompression has been removed so I am having to crank against compression for close to 20 seconds before needle moves. I do it every time but seems hard on starter.

Upon cool down at quitting time I have been letting it idle for 15-20 minutes before shutting off. I also do this on initial startup. My oil pressure gauge is the type that is about half red and half green. When idling at the end of the day to cool down the needle will venture into the red area an eighth inch or so. Is this ok? In the full fuel position oil pressure needle will stay pegged all through the day with no variation. And in the morning while idling for warmup the needle is pegged also, with cold oil of course.

I have been clearing fence line right-of-way that has thick scrub and big old mesquite and hackberry. Just having a real blast too. Will try to remember to take a picture or two. Thanks.
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Tue, Feb 2, 2016 9:30 AM
Old Magnet
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Most of that sounds pretty normal. I only do the crank to oil pressure start after unit has been sitting for a long time.
Hate to ask and get the oil debate going but what weight oil are you using. A modern straight weight SAE40 would be a closer match to the old SAE30 for that machine in your climate.
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Tue, Feb 2, 2016 10:16 AM
cab
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Most of that sounds pretty normal. I only do the crank to oil pressure start after unit has been sitting for a long time.
Hate to ask and get the oil debate going but what weight oil are you using. A modern straight weight SAE40 would be a closer match to the old SAE30 for that machine in your climate.
I am using SAE40 as you recommended to me several years ago in every sump. Real foolproof system. Same in D7 47A.
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Tue, Feb 2, 2016 11:03 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to cab:
I am using SAE40 as you recommended to me several years ago in every sump. Real foolproof system. Same in D7 47A.
To be current that would be SAE40 engine oil and TDTO (TO-4) SAE40 in the drive train. Otherwise all sounds good to me.
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Tue, Feb 2, 2016 11:14 AM
cab
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Reply to Old Magnet:
To be current that would be SAE40 engine oil and TDTO (TO-4) SAE40 in the drive train. Otherwise all sounds good to me.
I am using heavy duty diesel engine oil sae40 in all areas. My omi calls for sae30 superior lubricant series 3 in all oil bearing compartments from engine to ccu, which I thought translated into sae40 today. Is this wrong?
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Tue, Feb 2, 2016 11:35 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to cab:
I am using heavy duty diesel engine oil sae40 in all areas. My omi calls for sae30 superior lubricant series 3 in all oil bearing compartments from engine to ccu, which I thought translated into sae40 today. Is this wrong?
The later TDTO (transmission drive train oils),, first TO-2 spec. now TO-4 are formulated for friction disc operation where it was determined that motor oils are to slick with all the engine oil additives.
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Tue, Feb 2, 2016 1:15 PM
seiscat
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Reply to Old Magnet:
The later TDTO (transmission drive train oils),, first TO-2 spec. now TO-4 are formulated for friction disc operation where it was determined that motor oils are to slick with all the engine oil additives.
Hi cab, I know that the TDTO oil is the way to go but I also know you don’t operate your ‘dozers full time and you are careful to operate them properly so it is not necessary to change to drive-train oil until a scheduled oil change. When Caterpillar advised me to change to drive-train oil back in the 90’s I decided that any advantage gained would not be worth the risk of one of my operators mistakenly adding drive-train oil to the engine. I never had an oil related transmission failure.
Old Magnet is correct, it is not necessary to wait for full oil pressure before fire-up.
I suggest letting the tractor cool down at high idle with the oil pressure in the green and then a shorter period of time at low idle before shut down.
Happy 'dozing,
Craig
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Wed, Feb 3, 2016 12:31 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to seiscat:
Hi cab, I know that the TDTO oil is the way to go but I also know you don’t operate your ‘dozers full time and you are careful to operate them properly so it is not necessary to change to drive-train oil until a scheduled oil change. When Caterpillar advised me to change to drive-train oil back in the 90’s I decided that any advantage gained would not be worth the risk of one of my operators mistakenly adding drive-train oil to the engine. I never had an oil related transmission failure.
Old Magnet is correct, it is not necessary to wait for full oil pressure before fire-up.
I suggest letting the tractor cool down at high idle with the oil pressure in the green and then a shorter period of time at low idle before shut down.
Happy 'dozing,
Craig
Is the engine idling to low? This can indicate a low reading when the engine is at op temp and at an under rated idle rpm.
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Wed, Feb 3, 2016 4:20 AM
edb
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Reply to Rome K/G:
Is the engine idling to low? This can indicate a low reading when the engine is at op temp and at an under rated idle rpm.
Hi Cab,
ROME/KG makes a good point, often overlooked, with his comment about an engine idling at an under spec low idle speed affecting the low idle oil pressure reading.

Edit as per OM's prompt :- Low Idle Speed for the early 36A is 450 +/- 30 rpm My Rack book has a Temporary Chart for later s/no's that says 450 +/-10 rpm so it is not the final rpm as per OM's correction below. The 30 rpm variance is to allow for parasitic loads like thick oils in a cold engine, clutch drag, generator charging etc.

Silly me picked the Gen Set LI 😊


Depending on which Part No gauge you have the reading can appear different.
A true test would be with a known accurate gauge.
These old low stressed engines have large bearing areas and so do not need to use high oil pressures to keep the components apart. They use low oil pressure with high flow rates.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Wed, Feb 3, 2016 6:22 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to edb:
Hi Cab,
ROME/KG makes a good point, often overlooked, with his comment about an engine idling at an under spec low idle speed affecting the low idle oil pressure reading.

Edit as per OM's prompt :- Low Idle Speed for the early 36A is 450 +/- 30 rpm My Rack book has a Temporary Chart for later s/no's that says 450 +/-10 rpm so it is not the final rpm as per OM's correction below. The 30 rpm variance is to allow for parasitic loads like thick oils in a cold engine, clutch drag, generator charging etc.

Silly me picked the Gen Set LI 😊


Depending on which Part No gauge you have the reading can appear different.
A true test would be with a known accurate gauge.
These old low stressed engines have large bearing areas and so do not need to use high oil pressures to keep the components apart. They use low oil pressure with high flow rates.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
Hi edb,
My 1974 Rack Setting printing says 450 rpm or 475+/-30 rpm depending on s/n.
650 rpm +/- 50 rpm Decelerator setting if it has that feature.
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Wed, Feb 3, 2016 7:15 AM
cojhl2
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Hi edb,
My 1974 Rack Setting printing says 450 rpm or 475+/-30 rpm depending on s/n.
650 rpm +/- 50 rpm Decelerator setting if it has that feature.
From back in the day, waiting for oil pressure to build was a great advantage to the starting process of the big engine.

However, look at a heavy duty truck engine, you don't have the ability to hold back fuel and it does not seem to be detrimental to them.

It does cause me great alarm however when I hear someone start them above low idle and then worse yet rock the engine back and forth right after initial startup.
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Wed, Feb 3, 2016 9:49 AM
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