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9U power tilt issue

9U power tilt issue

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Joel59
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I have built a power tilt on my D6 9U. It works, but not quite like it should. I am using a belt driven parker p 16 gear pump. It is a 3.9ci pump rated for 2000 psi. At 1500 rpm it makes in the neighborhood of 20gpm. I have all 3/4" lines reduced to 1/2 at the valve work ports)[attachment=31145]tilt 1.jpg[/attachment][attachment=31146]tilt 2.jpg[/attachment][attachment=31147]tilt 3.jpg[/attachment]. I am using an old wood splitter style valve.

My problem is this: When I pull (or push) the valve to ask the cylinder to extend or contract it stalls the hydraulic pump- stalling the alternator for my direct electric conversion as well. It will only extend or contract if I "nurse" the valve back and forth. (Each time it stalls the pump it moves a bit prior to stalling).

My thinking is that I have way too much pump for this valve. Would that make sense? Should I look at a flow control valve? Thanks. Joel
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Tue, Sep 15, 2015 11:17 PM
Old Magnet
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Yes, that is way to much pump for the task with single belt drive.
Control valve is fine. Flow control valve is not the answer.
Don't have time for more details now if someone else wants to jump in.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 2:01 AM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Yes, that is way to much pump for the task with single belt drive.
Control valve is fine. Flow control valve is not the answer.
Don't have time for more details now if someone else wants to jump in.
Other than going to a much smaller pump you may try the following. Does the pump have a relief valve you can lower the pressure it takes to bypass. Or you my want to put a bypass line from the pump back to the reservoir tank. Install a adjustable pressure relief valve in it set low enough so it bypass's instead of slipping the belt. You have way to much oil coming out of the pump. If you can bypass enough of it back to the tank and still flow enough at a pressure high enough to run the tilt you could be in business. Either way to make this pump work you need the extra oil to go somewhere. Maybe somebody else will chime in with a better idea.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 5:27 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
Other than going to a much smaller pump you may try the following. Does the pump have a relief valve you can lower the pressure it takes to bypass. Or you my want to put a bypass line from the pump back to the reservoir tank. Install a adjustable pressure relief valve in it set low enough so it bypass's instead of slipping the belt. You have way to much oil coming out of the pump. If you can bypass enough of it back to the tank and still flow enough at a pressure high enough to run the tilt you could be in business. Either way to make this pump work you need the extra oil to go somewhere. Maybe somebody else will chime in with a better idea.
There is no way that the v belt has enough wrap on the driving pulley. try direct driving a smaller pump from the old gen input shaft
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 5:48 AM
edb
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Reply to STEPHEN:
There is no way that the v belt has enough wrap on the driving pulley. try direct driving a smaller pump from the old gen input shaft
Hi Stephen,
the following formula is for Hyd. Hp.= GPM x PSI divided by 1714

Your system as it stands is asking for around 23 Hp to drive it to supply 20GPM at 2000psi.

As suggested above a smaller output pump is needed, the current one driven slower, and/or a bypass system added.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 7:22 AM
Joel59
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Reply to edb:
Hi Stephen,
the following formula is for Hyd. Hp.= GPM x PSI divided by 1714

Your system as it stands is asking for around 23 Hp to drive it to supply 20GPM at 2000psi.

As suggested above a smaller output pump is needed, the current one driven slower, and/or a bypass system added.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Well, the most simple (and cheap) thing to try seems to be adding a pressure relief valve. That seems quite a bit easier than getting a new pump. Does this one seem right with the middle port routed back to the tank?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/1-2-NPT-30-GPM-1500-3000-PSI-PRINCE-HYDRAULIC-RELIEF-VALVE-RV-4H-9-6135-50-H-/271450224523?nav=SEARCH
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 7:46 AM
ccjersey
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How about going to double groove pulleys. There is one available for the Delco 10SI etc. At the same time you could probably increase the diameter of the driving pulley and the pump pulley.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 8:48 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ccjersey:
How about going to double groove pulleys. There is one available for the Delco 10SI etc. At the same time you could probably increase the diameter of the driving pulley and the pump pulley.
Running high flow through a relief valve is going to generate a lot of heat. Best bet is to properly size the pump for the cylinder in use.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 9:29 AM
BobPV15
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Reply to ccjersey:
How about going to double groove pulleys. There is one available for the Delco 10SI etc. At the same time you could probably increase the diameter of the driving pulley and the pump pulley.
You need a much smaller pump, like 1 to 2 gpm. A by pass system will not work. The pump has to pump the full flow at the pressure needed to move the cylinder. The energy of the bypass flow is just waisted over an orifice.
You would need a wide toothed belt to transfer that kind of horsepower.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 9:37 AM
8C 361
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Reply to STEPHEN:
There is no way that the v belt has enough wrap on the driving pulley. try direct driving a smaller pump from the old gen input shaft


Stephen has the answer.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 7:17 PM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to BobPV15:
You need a much smaller pump, like 1 to 2 gpm. A by pass system will not work. The pump has to pump the full flow at the pressure needed to move the cylinder. The energy of the bypass flow is just waisted over an orifice.
You would need a wide toothed belt to transfer that kind of horsepower.
[quote="BobPV15"]You need a much smaller pump, like 1 to 2 gpm. A by pass system will not work. The pump has to pump the full flow at the pressure needed to move the cylinder. The energy of the bypass flow is just waisted over an orifice.
You would need a wide toothed belt to transfer that kind of horsepower.[/quote]

While I agree entirely that a smaller (and probably lower pressure) pump is the best solution I believe a relief valve bypass will work. For starters it does not bypass all the time but only for the short time when the cylinder control is engaged. A good question is what is the pressure needed. The tilt cylinder should not take much pressure to tilt as it is somewhat of a balanced system. If the blade cylinder needs 1,000 PSI to function a bypass relief set at 1,100 PSI would allow the excess oil to bypass, while the cylinder circuit would get all the oil it could flow. Path of least resistance. It will bypass only for the amount of time the control is engaged and then reverts back to its normally open circuit. The unknown is if the belt has enough traction to turn the pump with that much volume at the lower pressures.
Edit: As edb mentioned a larger pulley on the pump would also help in 2 ways. Increasing the amount of belt friction area and at the same time slowing down the pump to produce less volume.
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Wed, Sep 16, 2015 8:41 PM
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