ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
951C Water in Oil

951C Water in Oil

Showing 1 to 10 of 12 results
1
Aphonopelma
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Aphonopelma
Posts: 170
Thank you received: 0
Hi All,

I had something go wrong in my 3304 engine on the 951C. I have steam out the breather valve on the valve cover and steam in the exhaust. My original guess was a blow head gasket. I tore the top of the engine apart and was quite surprised to find the head gasket in good shape with no apparent blowby between cylinders/oil paths/water paths. I also didn't see any signs of cracks in the head or block, granted I know these can sometimes be hard to see. The oil and water have mixed into a nice frothy mess throughout the engine.

Would I be correct to now take apart the oil cooler to look for a failed core? Any other suggestions?

Thanks
Scott

1975 951C
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Sep 21, 2010 2:29 AM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,696
Thank you received: 18
Usually to produce steam you have water leaking in to the combustion area or hot exhaust passages. Look over the valve areas real close for cracks.

I suppose a major leak in the cooler could flood the oil system and distribute moisture/water that could wind up in the combustion process.

What were the original symptoms....bubbles in the radiator....loss of coolant.....oil levels going up...etc?
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Sep 21, 2010 6:11 AM
bob
Offline
Send a private message to bob
Posts: 701
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
Usually to produce steam you have water leaking in to the combustion area or hot exhaust passages. Look over the valve areas real close for cracks.

I suppose a major leak in the cooler could flood the oil system and distribute moisture/water that could wind up in the combustion process.

What were the original symptoms....bubbles in the radiator....loss of coolant.....oil levels going up...etc?
It's hard to do now that you have it apart but I would have a good look at the water pump. Since it's that bad you might aswell take the pan and plate off. Try to leave the oil pump in place or you will need to time the ballancers. Wash out as much of the slime out as you can. Reinstall the head, get the rest of the cooling system together so it will hold collant then pressurize the rad. You will be able to see the source of the leak and correct it. Then you need to change the oil filter and flush the crankcase with and oil additive that will make a solution of what's left in there and the new oil. Do Not Load the engine with this solution in there, idle only. Then change the oil and filter twice more and you should be good to go. You still need to watch for any signs of metal in the oil in future, perchance the crank bearings where dammaged.
Later Bob
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Sep 21, 2010 6:47 AM
Aphonopelma
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Aphonopelma
Posts: 170
Thank you received: 0
Reply to bob:
It's hard to do now that you have it apart but I would have a good look at the water pump. Since it's that bad you might aswell take the pan and plate off. Try to leave the oil pump in place or you will need to time the ballancers. Wash out as much of the slime out as you can. Reinstall the head, get the rest of the cooling system together so it will hold collant then pressurize the rad. You will be able to see the source of the leak and correct it. Then you need to change the oil filter and flush the crankcase with and oil additive that will make a solution of what's left in there and the new oil. Do Not Load the engine with this solution in there, idle only. Then change the oil and filter twice more and you should be good to go. You still need to watch for any signs of metal in the oil in future, perchance the crank bearings where dammaged.
Later Bob
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll continue the investigation this weekend and post what I find. The local Cat parts depot will enjoy the additional business.
Scott

1975 951C
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Sep 21, 2010 1:10 PM
catsilver
Offline
Send a private message to catsilver
Posts: 1,644
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Aphonopelma:
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll continue the investigation this weekend and post what I find. The local Cat parts depot will enjoy the additional business.
Make sure the leak-off drain hole in the water pump is clear, you wouldn't be the first to pull an engine down to find its only a water pump seal leak!
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Sep 21, 2010 7:14 PM
Aphonopelma
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Aphonopelma
Posts: 170
Thank you received: 0
Reply to catsilver:
Make sure the leak-off drain hole in the water pump is clear, you wouldn't be the first to pull an engine down to find its only a water pump seal leak!
Hi All,

I found time to continue the investigation. I tore down the water pump to find the seals are shot, in fact coolant blurped through to the gear side while I was working on it. :mmph: Considering how badly damaged the seals are I think this is the root source of the steam.

SJ - I did measure the liner height off the block deck. All four liners were .024 to .028 above the deck, they all have a step up on them. I don't think I need to do further investigation here, if I'm wrong let me know.

Thanks for all the help. I'll post an update after I QC my work.
Scott

1975 951C
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Sep 22, 2010 10:26 AM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,696
Thank you received: 18
Reply to Aphonopelma:
Hi All,

I found time to continue the investigation. I tore down the water pump to find the seals are shot, in fact coolant blurped through to the gear side while I was working on it. :mmph: Considering how badly damaged the seals are I think this is the root source of the steam.

SJ - I did measure the liner height off the block deck. All four liners were .024 to .028 above the deck, they all have a step up on them. I don't think I need to do further investigation here, if I'm wrong let me know.

Thanks for all the help. I'll post an update after I QC my work.
Think you need another zero in there 0.0024 to 0.0028 ? But we get what you mean.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Sep 22, 2010 11:18 AM
Aphonopelma
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Aphonopelma
Posts: 170
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
Think you need another zero in there 0.0024 to 0.0028 ? But we get what you mean.
Nope, .024" to .028" is correct. The liners are distinctly above the deck. I cleaned the carbon buildup off the inner lip before I measured them, prior to cleaning I was getting .030" - .045". I'll post a picture of it tomorrow.

The head gasket had matching compression in the raised area where the liners contact.
Scott

1975 951C
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Sep 22, 2010 11:57 AM
bob
Offline
Send a private message to bob
Posts: 701
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Aphonopelma:
Nope, .024" to .028" is correct. The liners are distinctly above the deck. I cleaned the carbon buildup off the inner lip before I measured them, prior to cleaning I was getting .030" - .045". I'll post a picture of it tomorrow.

The head gasket had matching compression in the raised area where the liners contact.
Do you have them clamped down? Should use an "H"bar and two bolts torqued to 60 Lb Ft then measure at 4 points around the flange.
Later Bob
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Sep 22, 2010 7:44 PM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,696
Thank you received: 18
Reply to bob:
Do you have them clamped down? Should use an "H"bar and two bolts torqued to 60 Lb Ft then measure at 4 points around the flange.
Later Bob
Something ain't right.
Spec is 0.0013 to 0.0069 in. with liners clamped down.

Are you measuring the outer ring next to the stepped bore or to the top of the projected ring. Spec is for outer ring.

Also I gave you the wrong spec (for spacer plate engine)
For the counterbored block it's 0.0020 to 0.0056 in.

Sorry
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Sep 22, 2010 9:29 PM
AJ.
Offline
Send a private message to AJ.
Posts: 314
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
Something ain't right.
Spec is 0.0013 to 0.0069 in. with liners clamped down.

Are you measuring the outer ring next to the stepped bore or to the top of the projected ring. Spec is for outer ring.

Also I gave you the wrong spec (for spacer plate engine)
For the counterbored block it's 0.0020 to 0.0056 in.

Sorry
You must be taking the reading from the top of the liner,take the reading from where the gasket seats not the top where you cleaned the carbon from.
AJ
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Thu, Sep 23, 2010 3:59 AM
Showing 1 to 10 of 12 results
1
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Cromford Steam Rally

Chapter Two

| Highacres Farm, Dewey Lane, Brackenfield, Derbyshire DE55 6DB, UK

The Century of Caterpillar

| Elkader, 203 Johnson St, Elkader, IA 52043, USA

100 YEARS OF CATERPILLAR IN TASMANIA

Chapter Nineteen

| 2 Winkleigh Rd, Exeter TAS 7275
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I became a member recently because the wealth of knowledge here is priceless." 
-Chris R

Join Today!