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59 7U milky gearbox oil and shifting hard.

59 7U milky gearbox oil and shifting hard.

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wakedirt
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I have a 1959 (I think) 7U44096 D4. I have noticed that it is staring to shift hard into gear inadvertently. Sometimes it is super smooth and there are zero issue, but then out of nowhere it will not engage at all, just wants to grind (forward or reverse). Once it is in gear its all good, just getting it back into gear shifting from forward 1 to reverse or vise versa. I inspected the gearbox oil and it is a bit milky, so I am suspecting H20.

My questions are:

-Is this possibly the reason for hard shifting?
-What gear oil should I use, and I see I need about 5 gallons. 90w?
-I will be doing the motor oil, and the pony motor also, any other recommendations for fluids while I am at it?

Thanks!
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Sun, May 1, 2016 11:49 AM
cheshire cat
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Yes the milky bit sounds like water best to change hot and flush with diesel could be the boot over the shift lever split or just condensation build up, just use any basic spec 90 wt gear oil,
the difficulty getting gears could be the brake on the back of the clutch needs a bit of adjustment or repair, also check and lube the shifter interlock linkage, is it a dry clutch or oil type ??
Engines I use 15/40 DEO be very careful with the pony oil change it a few times to make sure all the old gunk is out of it as new oil can desolve years of settled sludge which then circulates causing rapid wear , park the tractor down hill on an angle if possible so it drains completely , also drain and refill the fuel pump oil (15/40) and the pony pinion clutch( can use 15/40 or 5/30 if a cold area)
have Fun ,
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Sun, May 1, 2016 2:32 PM
Rome K/G
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Reply to cheshire cat:
Yes the milky bit sounds like water best to change hot and flush with diesel could be the boot over the shift lever split or just condensation build up, just use any basic spec 90 wt gear oil,
the difficulty getting gears could be the brake on the back of the clutch needs a bit of adjustment or repair, also check and lube the shifter interlock linkage, is it a dry clutch or oil type ??
Engines I use 15/40 DEO be very careful with the pony oil change it a few times to make sure all the old gunk is out of it as new oil can desolve years of settled sludge which then circulates causing rapid wear , park the tractor down hill on an angle if possible so it drains completely , also drain and refill the fuel pump oil (15/40) and the pony pinion clutch( can use 15/40 or 5/30 if a cold area)
have Fun ,
Also make sure the metal drain lines from the transfer pump and injection pump are open and are not bent shut. When you check the oil levels in the pump and clutch n pinion see if they are overfilled, if so fuel is getting into the pump and starting engine oil could be leaking into clutch pinion.
Gary
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Sun, May 1, 2016 9:24 PM
wakedirt
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Reply to cheshire cat:
Yes the milky bit sounds like water best to change hot and flush with diesel could be the boot over the shift lever split or just condensation build up, just use any basic spec 90 wt gear oil,
the difficulty getting gears could be the brake on the back of the clutch needs a bit of adjustment or repair, also check and lube the shifter interlock linkage, is it a dry clutch or oil type ??
Engines I use 15/40 DEO be very careful with the pony oil change it a few times to make sure all the old gunk is out of it as new oil can desolve years of settled sludge which then circulates causing rapid wear , park the tractor down hill on an angle if possible so it drains completely , also drain and refill the fuel pump oil (15/40) and the pony pinion clutch( can use 15/40 or 5/30 if a cold area)
have Fun ,
[quote="cheshire cat"]Yes the milky bit sounds like water best to change hot and flush with diesel could be the boot over the shift lever split or just condensation build up, just use any basic spec 90 wt gear oil,
the difficulty getting gears could be the brake on the back of the clutch needs a bit of adjustment or repair, also check and lube the shifter interlock linkage, is it a dry clutch or oil type ??
Engines I use 15/40 DEO be very careful with the pony oil change it a few times to make sure all the old gunk is out of it as new oil can desolve years of settled sludge which then circulates causing rapid wear , park the tractor down hill on an angle if possible so it drains completely , also drain and refill the fuel pump oil (15/40) and the pony pinion clutch( can use 15/40 or 5/30 if a cold area)
have Fun ,[/quote]

Grat thank you! I don't know if it is a dry clutch or not, how would I tell? I will look into on how to adjust, I do have some old manuals. Also I will most def lube the linkage and be sure the gear box is clean before changing the oil. As for the pony thanks for the heads up, I'll run some oil through a few times before to be sure all the gunk is out. Are the fuel pump and pony clutch oils easy to drain or do they need to be pumped out?


Thanks again for the great info!
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Sun, May 1, 2016 10:59 PM
wakedirt
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Reply to Rome K/G:
Also make sure the metal drain lines from the transfer pump and injection pump are open and are not bent shut. When you check the oil levels in the pump and clutch n pinion see if they are overfilled, if so fuel is getting into the pump and starting engine oil could be leaking into clutch pinion.
Gary
[quote="ROME/KG"]Also make sure the metal drain lines from the transfer pump and injection pump are open and are not bent shut. When you check the oil levels in the pump and clutch n pinion see if they are overfilled, if so fuel is getting into the pump and starting engine oil could be leaking into clutch pinion.
Gary[/quote]

Are you saying the oil lines for the main motors oil pump? Or the pony?
Also if they are over filled..this could cause the difficult shift possibly?
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Sun, May 1, 2016 11:02 PM
Rome K/G
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Reply to wakedirt:
[quote="ROME/KG"]Also make sure the metal drain lines from the transfer pump and injection pump are open and are not bent shut. When you check the oil levels in the pump and clutch n pinion see if they are overfilled, if so fuel is getting into the pump and starting engine oil could be leaking into clutch pinion.
Gary[/quote]

Are you saying the oil lines for the main motors oil pump? Or the pony?
Also if they are over filled..this could cause the difficult shift possibly?
The lines come from the fuel transfer pump and the fuel injection pump to drain the upper housing. The over filling is from the pony crank seal leaking down into the pinion/clutch housing. Oil clutch will have a dipstick close to the inner side of the right brake pedal. The drain for the pinion is under the pinion towards the flywheel housing the level plug is in front on the pinion housing. Drain for the injection pump and governor is under the governor.
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Sun, May 1, 2016 11:15 PM
Rome K/G
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Reply to Rome K/G:
The lines come from the fuel transfer pump and the fuel injection pump to drain the upper housing. The over filling is from the pony crank seal leaking down into the pinion/clutch housing. Oil clutch will have a dipstick close to the inner side of the right brake pedal. The drain for the pinion is under the pinion towards the flywheel housing the level plug is in front on the pinion housing. Drain for the injection pump and governor is under the governor.
The @3/16" metal tubes are below and ahead of the fuel transfer pump. Try to find a service and operators manual on ebay, these will be very helpful down the road to good service and operation. Cat has them also but very pricey.
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Sun, May 1, 2016 11:20 PM
wakedirt
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Reply to Rome K/G:
The @3/16" metal tubes are below and ahead of the fuel transfer pump. Try to find a service and operators manual on ebay, these will be very helpful down the road to good service and operation. Cat has them also but very pricey.


Great thank you! I do have the manuals. Thanks again!
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Mon, May 2, 2016 3:50 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to wakedirt:


Great thank you! I do have the manuals. Thanks again!
Yer welcome. never hurts ask and find out things, its always a learning process with the old machines. I've spent allot of time studying parts and manuals to see how things are made and repaired but still find out things later.
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Mon, May 2, 2016 4:03 AM
cheshire cat
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Reply to wakedirt:
[quote="cheshire cat"]Yes the milky bit sounds like water best to change hot and flush with diesel could be the boot over the shift lever split or just condensation build up, just use any basic spec 90 wt gear oil,
the difficulty getting gears could be the brake on the back of the clutch needs a bit of adjustment or repair, also check and lube the shifter interlock linkage, is it a dry clutch or oil type ??
Engines I use 15/40 DEO be very careful with the pony oil change it a few times to make sure all the old gunk is out of it as new oil can desolve years of settled sludge which then circulates causing rapid wear , park the tractor down hill on an angle if possible so it drains completely , also drain and refill the fuel pump oil (15/40) and the pony pinion clutch( can use 15/40 or 5/30 if a cold area)
have Fun ,[/quote]

Grat thank you! I don't know if it is a dry clutch or not, how would I tell? I will look into on how to adjust, I do have some old manuals. Also I will most def lube the linkage and be sure the gear box is clean before changing the oil. As for the pony thanks for the heads up, I'll run some oil through a few times before to be sure all the gunk is out. Are the fuel pump and pony clutch oils easy to drain or do they need to be pumped out?


Thanks again for the great info!
[quote="wakedirt"]Grat thank you! I don't know if it is a dry clutch or not, how would I tell? I will look into on how to adjust, I do have some old manuals. Also I will most def lube the linkage and be sure the gear box is clean before changing the oil. As for the pony thanks for the heads up, I'll run some oil through a few times before to be sure all the gunk is out. Are the fuel pump and pony clutch oils easy to drain or do they need to be pumped out?


Thanks again for the great info![/quote]
The oil clutch has a extra dip stick and if you take the inspection cover off and its got a few pipes and a gear driven pump its an oil type ,if its a simple looking thing then its a dry type '''
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Mon, May 2, 2016 4:39 AM
wakedirt
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Reply to cheshire cat:
[quote="wakedirt"]Grat thank you! I don't know if it is a dry clutch or not, how would I tell? I will look into on how to adjust, I do have some old manuals. Also I will most def lube the linkage and be sure the gear box is clean before changing the oil. As for the pony thanks for the heads up, I'll run some oil through a few times before to be sure all the gunk is out. Are the fuel pump and pony clutch oils easy to drain or do they need to be pumped out?


Thanks again for the great info![/quote]
The oil clutch has a extra dip stick and if you take the inspection cover off and its got a few pipes and a gear driven pump its an oil type ,if its a simple looking thing then its a dry type '''


It's the wet type

Anyone have any idea where to get these seals? CAT?[attachment=35332]D4-Oct-3g.jpg[/attachment] This is a photo of the same Rams I have, my manuals have no seal serial #s
Attachment
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Tue, May 3, 2016 5:42 AM
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