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3J D2 is running again!

3J D2 is running again!

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frochevy
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It's been awhile since I've had the D2 running. I took the mag off the pony months ago because I was having weak spark as well as gas tank issues. My dad helped me clean up and install new points and condenser in the mag. Along with the mag parts I ordered spark plug wire components to make new wires. I cleaned the pony gas tank out and brazed a different bung in to install a new sediment bowl/ shutoff. Pony is starting and running pretty decent now. My question is about the starter pinion. I read other posts about it kicking out when compression is added on the diesel engine. Mine stays engaged until the diesel engine starts firing about to start, then it will kick out from time to time. Do I need to adjust it?

The picture is my helper. We rode the D2 for a couple hours Friday...
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Sun, Aug 28, 2016 10:14 AM
catsilver
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Do you run at full compression with the fuel shut-off until the main is ready to start? having the throttle open when you go to full compression will try and start the engine before it is warm enough.
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Sun, Aug 28, 2016 5:38 PM
frochevy
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Reply to catsilver:
Do you run at full compression with the fuel shut-off until the main is ready to start? having the throttle open when you go to full compression will try and start the engine before it is warm enough.
I have throttle closed and let the engine turn over a few minutes with no compression. Then I switch to compression leaving the throttle closed. After a few minutes of that I give a little fuel and look for darker smoke. If smoke is still light, i pull throttle back closed. All this time the pony stays engaged. When the diesel starts to hit is when the pinion will disengage. It seems the diesel will pop or hit a few times and the pinion will kick out. A few times of it disengaging and me switching back to no compression, getting the pinion engaged and diesel turning again, I turn compression on and will finally start. I'm new to this and not entirely sure I'm doing the procedure correctly. I definitely don't want to be tearing parts up!
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Sun, Aug 28, 2016 8:47 PM
cojhl2
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Reply to frochevy:
I have throttle closed and let the engine turn over a few minutes with no compression. Then I switch to compression leaving the throttle closed. After a few minutes of that I give a little fuel and look for darker smoke. If smoke is still light, i pull throttle back closed. All this time the pony stays engaged. When the diesel starts to hit is when the pinion will disengage. It seems the diesel will pop or hit a few times and the pinion will kick out. A few times of it disengaging and me switching back to no compression, getting the pinion engaged and diesel turning again, I turn compression on and will finally start. I'm new to this and not entirely sure I'm doing the procedure correctly. I definitely don't want to be tearing parts up!
Well maybe the pinion needs tightening up a bit but:

When I start I don't mess around testing the smoke, run the starting engine with compression on until you are sure it's going to start and then give a significant shot of fuel, like 1/4 throttle.

You can tell if the engine is ready to start by smoking a lucky while you wait or feeling the head for warmth.
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Sun, Aug 28, 2016 9:28 PM
catsilver
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Reply to cojhl2:
Well maybe the pinion needs tightening up a bit but:

When I start I don't mess around testing the smoke, run the starting engine with compression on until you are sure it's going to start and then give a significant shot of fuel, like 1/4 throttle.

You can tell if the engine is ready to start by smoking a lucky while you wait or feeling the head for warmth.
I would try a half turn in on each latch adjusting screw, keep running on full compression until you hear the engine trying to 'beat' , then open the throttle and it should fire straight up.
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Sun, Aug 28, 2016 10:39 PM
Dozerman51
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Reply to catsilver:
I would try a half turn in on each latch adjusting screw, keep running on full compression until you hear the engine trying to 'beat' , then open the throttle and it should fire straight up.
I follow the starting procedure called for by Cat. I also put my hand along the upper sides of the block to feel the for heat along the cylinder walls. Room temperature or better, my D2 will always start less than that not so much. In all fairness, they are all different in temperament, especially when using the "Tried and true" pony motor. LOL. :clap2:
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Mon, Aug 29, 2016 11:32 AM
frochevy
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Reply to Dozerman51:
I follow the starting procedure called for by Cat. I also put my hand along the upper sides of the block to feel the for heat along the cylinder walls. Room temperature or better, my D2 will always start less than that not so much. In all fairness, they are all different in temperament, especially when using the "Tried and true" pony motor. LOL. :clap2:


Where would I find that Cat Starting Procedure?
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Mon, Aug 29, 2016 11:55 PM
rmyram
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the starting procedure is in the operating use instructions, or the owners manual.

what your doing is fine and the latches are kicking out when it hits on one or two cylinders which in my experience is pretty normal, you could adjust your latches a half turn each, there are specs for kick out speeds that have been posted before.

like has been previously mentioned, feel the diesel engine block and head for heat. if they are both warm to touch the diesel should take right off and the latch adjustment won't matter a significant amount.

when i start my diesels on the pony, i crank the diesel on compression after establishing i have oil pressure. once it is cranking on compression, i leave the fuel off and let it crank. while it is cranking i will check the diesel engine oil level, i may grease some rollers, or other levers requiring grease, check final drive oil levels, hydraulic oil levels, etc. then i feel the diesel engine block and head. if the head is warm to touch between the diesel exhaust maniflolds, and the intake manifold is nice and warm, and the block is nice and warm on both sides,, i crack the diesel fuel open about half way. the engine usually hits on the first cylinder and keeps going, kicking the pony latches out. if the diesel doesn't take off right away i give it a couple more minutes of cranking on compression, no fuel to warm it up. as soon as the diesel is running and the pony latches are kicked out, i return the pony to idle speed, and shut the fuel supply yo the pony off and let it run out of fuel. once the pony runs out of fuel, i roll the pony engine over compression on one cylinder to ensure it is on the power stroke so the valves are back in the head and can cool down evenly preventing warpage. on the even fire ponies, you can never get all the valves closed at the same time. on odd fire vertical ponies, i roll the pony over so that it is between compression strokes of each cylinder, that way all the valves are closed and seated in the block. they won't warp as the engine cools down.

i do this on the old JD two cylinder tractors as well, making sure that when the tractor is shut off all the valves are in the head to prevent warpage of the valves.
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Tue, Aug 30, 2016 5:32 AM
mog5858
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Reply to rmyram:
the starting procedure is in the operating use instructions, or the owners manual.

what your doing is fine and the latches are kicking out when it hits on one or two cylinders which in my experience is pretty normal, you could adjust your latches a half turn each, there are specs for kick out speeds that have been posted before.

like has been previously mentioned, feel the diesel engine block and head for heat. if they are both warm to touch the diesel should take right off and the latch adjustment won't matter a significant amount.

when i start my diesels on the pony, i crank the diesel on compression after establishing i have oil pressure. once it is cranking on compression, i leave the fuel off and let it crank. while it is cranking i will check the diesel engine oil level, i may grease some rollers, or other levers requiring grease, check final drive oil levels, hydraulic oil levels, etc. then i feel the diesel engine block and head. if the head is warm to touch between the diesel exhaust maniflolds, and the intake manifold is nice and warm, and the block is nice and warm on both sides,, i crack the diesel fuel open about half way. the engine usually hits on the first cylinder and keeps going, kicking the pony latches out. if the diesel doesn't take off right away i give it a couple more minutes of cranking on compression, no fuel to warm it up. as soon as the diesel is running and the pony latches are kicked out, i return the pony to idle speed, and shut the fuel supply yo the pony off and let it run out of fuel. once the pony runs out of fuel, i roll the pony engine over compression on one cylinder to ensure it is on the power stroke so the valves are back in the head and can cool down evenly preventing warpage. on the even fire ponies, you can never get all the valves closed at the same time. on odd fire vertical ponies, i roll the pony over so that it is between compression strokes of each cylinder, that way all the valves are closed and seated in the block. they won't warp as the engine cools down.

i do this on the old JD two cylinder tractors as well, making sure that when the tractor is shut off all the valves are in the head to prevent warpage of the valves.
nice pic i bet he won't to go for a ride now dad. keep up the good work
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Tue, Aug 30, 2016 6:26 AM
frochevy
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Reply to mog5858:
nice pic i bet he won't to go for a ride now dad. keep up the good work
Thanks for all the info. I will try that method next time I start it. My wife is right, I can't leave anything alone. D2 was running good for a day then i had to tear it back apart. Lol I removed the seat/tank in order to put it back in the original location. Looks like someone has added some plates to move up and back. There was also a rubber hose that was seeping diesel so wanted to fix that as well. Is the original fuel line copper with a steel end soldered on it? I'm assuming the rubber hose wasn't original?
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Tue, Aug 30, 2016 8:24 AM
neil
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Reply to frochevy:
Thanks for all the info. I will try that method next time I start it. My wife is right, I can't leave anything alone. D2 was running good for a day then i had to tear it back apart. Lol I removed the seat/tank in order to put it back in the original location. Looks like someone has added some plates to move up and back. There was also a rubber hose that was seeping diesel so wanted to fix that as well. Is the original fuel line copper with a steel end soldered on it? I'm assuming the rubber hose wasn't original?
My line was steel with fittings soldered to it (but the new one will be copper....)
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Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:03 AM
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