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1959 d8h 35a cat won't start

1959 d8h 35a cat won't start

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treestandman
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to the site and this is my problem, Me and my wife bought this cat from a estate sale, the turbo had been removed and oil lines removed, and the water was drained just past the therostats, carb and gas tank removed. All the parts were in the shed new turbo and gaskets, and everything had bin covered quit well I thought.
So the first day involved putting the carb and gas tank back, reinstalling thermostat housing installing turbo and reconnecting all the oil lines and filling with water.
We managed to get the pony running and was able to turn the big motor over, so I warmed the big motor up and got oil pressure, then I went to run on the decompression lever, and it didn't seem to change anything with rpm of pony, and wasn't getting any fuel. I took cover off of rack and the rack was stuck, freed it up and bleed lines, tried again smoke was coming out exhaust but no go.
I'm not really sure I'm getting enough fuel, or the decompression is not working or stuck (not sure if that is possible), or there is something stuck in the intake side that I might of missed.
It's seems to me that there is very little compression, if that's the case I would think it would be all the cylinders, I would think it would fire on a couple of cylinders.
I would sure like to here you guys/gals oppinion
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Thu, Oct 10, 2019 4:06 AM
treestandman
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Well me and the wife made it back to the cat, I tried to fix the carb on the pony from flooding but no luck so the tank petcock is the carburator for now. I took the valve covers off to watch the decompression rods and valves, it seems that the valves are moving freely, but when i move the decompression handle nothing happens, rods don't move, i'm not sure whats at the bottom of the rods but it seems solid, so i thought i should try it again thinking the valves are working properly,so we tried it again seems like the pony turns the motor over easily in compression or run mod, pushed a little black smoke out exhaust but still no fire.
It doesn't help that that the pony is not running very good.
So we returned home scratching are heads again. We are going to try to change fuel filters, and make sure fuel pressure gauge is working and not stuck.
This cat has a torque convertor that is filled with diesel fuel and this might be a issue as well not to sure though, it needs a certain amount of fuel pressure i think before a regulator valve allows fuel to go to injector pumps. Took carb apart again and the float is full of fuel so I soldered it up, hopefully that stops it from flooding.
If anyone can help please chime in.
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Thu, Oct 10, 2019 6:40 AM
gemdozer
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Make the poney transmission is in second speed if she is in 1 speed the motor never started.
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Thu, Oct 10, 2019 7:06 AM
edb
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Reply to gemdozer:
Make the poney transmission is in second speed if she is in 1 speed the motor never started.
Hi,
welcome to the BB.
What Hector is telling you is to ensure that the Pony Transmission is in High Range.

It has High and Low ranges, Low is used for turning the Main engine over in really cold weather--like below freezing-- to get things loosened up and moving freely. After some warmth is in the system then stop turning the main and shift to High and resume turning over in High, when warm enough try and start the Main.

As hector said, the main will not fire off in Low range.

With the Fuel Type T/Converters the fuel in the tank gets warm during usage, so always top off the fuel tank at the end of the day to help reduce condensation in the tank and watery fuel that likes to eat at Injection and T/Con. components.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Thu, Oct 10, 2019 7:24 AM
treestandman
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Reply to edb:
Hi,
welcome to the BB.
What Hector is telling you is to ensure that the Pony Transmission is in High Range.

It has High and Low ranges, Low is used for turning the Main engine over in really cold weather--like below freezing-- to get things loosened up and moving freely. After some warmth is in the system then stop turning the main and shift to High and resume turning over in High, when warm enough try and start the Main.

As hector said, the main will not fire off in Low range.

With the Fuel Type T/Converters the fuel in the tank gets warm during usage, so always top off the fuel tank at the end of the day to help reduce condensation in the tank and watery fuel that likes to eat at Injection and T/Con. components.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
Ok we will try high gear and see if that will make the difference.
Thanks for the information about the torque converter to.
We are very new to this type of equipment and any information is greatly appreciated.
Hopefully we can try it this weekend as we are 3 hours away from the old girl, I will keep you posted.
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Thu, Oct 10, 2019 10:00 PM
ccjersey
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Hope you looked for rags stuffed into intake before mounting turbocharger! I bought an engine that I subsequently dismantled and found a big piece of rag in the intake runner above the intake valve of one cylinder. Wonder what they thought was the cause of the misfire!

Still, much better rags than mud dauber nests which is what happens here.

Sounds like Eddie and Hector are probably onto the problem, but remember it takes heat so if you're not getting black smoke, keep turning it with compression release in RUN and fuel off to build up heat in the intake and head, piston, cylinder etc. Open throttle occasionally and see what it does. I for one don't shy away from judicious use of starting fluid, but understand there are plenty that won't use it.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Oct 11, 2019 12:39 AM
BigAgCat
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Reply to ccjersey:
Hope you looked for rags stuffed into intake before mounting turbocharger! I bought an engine that I subsequently dismantled and found a big piece of rag in the intake runner above the intake valve of one cylinder. Wonder what they thought was the cause of the misfire!

Still, much better rags than mud dauber nests which is what happens here.

Sounds like Eddie and Hector are probably onto the problem, but remember it takes heat so if you're not getting black smoke, keep turning it with compression release in RUN and fuel off to build up heat in the intake and head, piston, cylinder etc. Open throttle occasionally and see what it does. I for one don't shy away from judicious use of starting fluid, but understand there are plenty that won't use it.
Just my 2 cents.

Have you followed the compression lever assembly to make sure it actually rotates the bits that enables and disables compression on the engine?

Maybe the connectors on the rod or rods have their bolts loose and they aren't actually moving when you move the compression lever?
Cat D6 5R
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Fri, Oct 11, 2019 1:25 AM
treestandman
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Reply to BigAgCat:
Just my 2 cents.

Have you followed the compression lever assembly to make sure it actually rotates the bits that enables and disables compression on the engine?

Maybe the connectors on the rod or rods have their bolts loose and they aren't actually moving when you move the compression lever?
The next time we are at the cat I'm going to take turbo and intake plumbing off just to double check that there wasn't a rag or blanking plate in there, thanks
The compression lever does rotate but the rods do not come in contact with the rockers, Im not sure why, he may have loosen the nuts for some reason but it does not make sense why he would of done that, is it steel rod to a cam shaft or is there a hydraulic lifter at the bottom?
I'm like a kid in a candy store I can't wait to get back out there and play around with the old girl.
thanks for the intel guys
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Fri, Oct 11, 2019 2:19 AM
edb
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Reply to treestandman:
The next time we are at the cat I'm going to take turbo and intake plumbing off just to double check that there wasn't a rag or blanking plate in there, thanks
The compression lever does rotate but the rods do not come in contact with the rockers, Im not sure why, he may have loosen the nuts for some reason but it does not make sense why he would of done that, is it steel rod to a cam shaft or is there a hydraulic lifter at the bottom?
I'm like a kid in a candy store I can't wait to get back out there and play around with the old girl.
thanks for the intel guys
Hi,
Inlet valve clearance :- 0.016" (Hot)

Exhaust Valve clearance :- 0.020" (Hot)

Compression Release clearance :- 0.025" - 0.030" Adjust/check with the valve fully closed when you are adjusting the Inlet Valve clearance.

For illustration purposes only, is a scan of the earlier external pushrod tube and big injector style engine.
The cutaway shows the Comp. release mechanism and this was still used in the later engines.

Hope this helps--it will if I add the scan.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
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Fri, Oct 11, 2019 5:48 AM
mog5858
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Reply to edb:
Hi,
Inlet valve clearance :- 0.016" (Hot)

Exhaust Valve clearance :- 0.020" (Hot)

Compression Release clearance :- 0.025" - 0.030" Adjust/check with the valve fully closed when you are adjusting the Inlet Valve clearance.

For illustration purposes only, is a scan of the earlier external pushrod tube and big injector style engine.
The cutaway shows the Comp. release mechanism and this was still used in the later engines.

Hope this helps--it will if I add the scan.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
sounds like you're well on your way to getting her going. just a thought when trying to start if you give her some ether and she fires than you know that you might have to look more at the fule system if no change than you have to look at your compression bad or stuck rings or tired old engine. keep us updated we like pictures too
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Fri, Oct 11, 2019 10:21 AM
treestandman
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Reply to mog5858:
sounds like you're well on your way to getting her going. just a thought when trying to start if you give her some ether and she fires than you know that you might have to look more at the fule system if no change than you have to look at your compression bad or stuck rings or tired old engine. keep us updated we like pictures too
thanks edb, that diagram explains a lot, there sure isn't much that can go wrong with the compression release, the old timer must of backed the nuts off on the rods,
i'm not sure why he would of done that.
As far as the engine being tired and worn out I thought of that, but it just doesn't make sense why the old timer would of went through all the work to remove turbo, buy a new one, both new a old turbo's were there in shed, go through all the work to build blanking plates to cover all the flanges so no water or dirt could get in, and all the undercarriage is all new, to spend that kind of money on a machine with a worn out engine just don't make sense to me, (but who knows it could be).
As far as pictures you guys tell me how to post pic's and I will.
We won't be working on the old girl this weekend, as we got about 1 1/2 feet of snow and all the roads are closed some pretty crappy weather
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Sat, Oct 12, 2019 9:28 PM
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