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1937 rd4 magneto w/o spark

1937 rd4 magneto w/o spark

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mcbitchman
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Hello I parked our 37 RD last fall and covered it up... all good... went to start it today and had no spark at the pony motor.... yikes.... any thoughts would be appreciated such as things to look out for ... how to inspect the mag// how to time it... etc.... Thank You,, Doug Horvath
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Mon, May 29, 2017 10:33 AM
Soapy
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Run a point file across the points in the mag. Look at the spark, if it is yellow, change the condenser.
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Mon, May 29, 2017 10:53 AM
mcbitchman
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Reply to Soapy:
Run a point file across the points in the mag. Look at the spark, if it is yellow, change the condenser.
thanks Soapy,,, How do you get into the mag? It looks like a little motor on top at the rear of the engine right above the pony motor, I'm a bit concerned that if I take it off the motor then how does one get the timing right ? Thanks Doug Horvath
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Tue, May 30, 2017 7:37 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to mcbitchman:
thanks Soapy,,, How do you get into the mag? It looks like a little motor on top at the rear of the engine right above the pony motor, I'm a bit concerned that if I take it off the motor then how does one get the timing right ? Thanks Doug Horvath
You should be able to remove the cap and check it out first. You might need to remove a few things that are in the way.
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Tue, May 30, 2017 10:18 AM
Soapy
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Reply to STEPHEN:
You should be able to remove the cap and check it out first. You might need to remove a few things that are in the way.
You have to take the throttle linkage loose at the carb, in order to remove the cap. Should be a screw at each corner of the cap. If is is like my D-2, there is a removable access cover on the firewall, to enable you to get the screws out. If not, there is a 3/8 pipe plug on the housing the mag bolts too, plug is toward the main engine. To retime, remove the plug, and line up the marks on the drive gear, and the driven gear on the mag, that are visible through the plug hole.
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Tue, May 30, 2017 12:32 PM
mcbitchman
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Reply to Soapy:
You have to take the throttle linkage loose at the carb, in order to remove the cap. Should be a screw at each corner of the cap. If is is like my D-2, there is a removable access cover on the firewall, to enable you to get the screws out. If not, there is a 3/8 pipe plug on the housing the mag bolts too, plug is toward the main engine. To retime, remove the plug, and line up the marks on the drive gear, and the driven gear on the mag, that are visible through the plug hole.
I will try that... thank you ,,, I let you knowhow it goes... Doug
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Tue, May 30, 2017 9:25 PM
rmyram
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don't remove the mag unless you have to, if it was running last year and no spark this spring it probably just needs the points cleaned and regapped. i know the d4 and d2 mags are not fun to access and work on.
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Tue, May 30, 2017 10:42 PM
mcbitchman
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Reply to rmyram:
don't remove the mag unless you have to, if it was running last year and no spark this spring it probably just needs the points cleaned and regapped. i know the d4 and d2 mags are not fun to access and work on.
Thank You Soapy for the wise advice.... I don't want to remove it either. A well seasoned logger friend of mine thought the same thing about the pts. even though Chug Chug was covered we live in a pretty damp winter environment so I suppose condensation would be a culprit. Gotta love these old Cats and from what I gather by the serial number this one is really old, near the beginning... and it's a wide model that I know forty three years of it's history and where it came from before that. so... of we go to pts school.... oh by the way how hard is it to tighten the tracks or should I be thinking that way... the right hand side skps off a bit sometimes and one has to kick it right while in reverse to pop it back in place.... yikes.... I have actually been logging with it and probably will continue to do so. Sure works good although a winch would be nice. I thought of putting an electric one on it and adding a alt/gen.... well for today ,,,, thanks again... Doug
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Thu, Jun 1, 2017 9:51 AM
rmyram
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if you do end up removing the mag, time it before you remove it. makes re-installation that much easier. clean the points with a points file, if you can find one, i have tried at all my local parts stores and industrial supplies and every one looks at me like i am from another planet.

pop the cover off the mag, remove the rotor, use a small pick or screwdriver to open the points, file the points so they are nice and clean. a nail file/emery board will work if you don't have a proper points file. mke sure all dust and corrosion is removed. i usually just blow on it really hard, i don't know what the spec is for your mag, but it will usually run if the points are set between 0.012" to about 0.018" if you don't have feeler gauges for setting the points, use a cigarette pack or a matchbook cover, even a cereal or cracker box will get you close enough. the points are set at maximum open so you need to rotate the engine until the points are at the widest gap when you set them. there is a small adjustment screw and there is usually a slot for a flat screwdriver to tweak the point adjustment after snugging the adjuster screw.

clean the rotor poles up a bit and the electrodes inside the cap. put it all back together and it should run.
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Thu, Jun 1, 2017 10:09 PM
mcbitchman
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Reply to rmyram:
if you do end up removing the mag, time it before you remove it. makes re-installation that much easier. clean the points with a points file, if you can find one, i have tried at all my local parts stores and industrial supplies and every one looks at me like i am from another planet.

pop the cover off the mag, remove the rotor, use a small pick or screwdriver to open the points, file the points so they are nice and clean. a nail file/emery board will work if you don't have a proper points file. mke sure all dust and corrosion is removed. i usually just blow on it really hard, i don't know what the spec is for your mag, but it will usually run if the points are set between 0.012" to about 0.018" if you don't have feeler gauges for setting the points, use a cigarette pack or a matchbook cover, even a cereal or cracker box will get you close enough. the points are set at maximum open so you need to rotate the engine until the points are at the widest gap when you set them. there is a small adjustment screw and there is usually a slot for a flat screwdriver to tweak the point adjustment after snugging the adjuster screw.

clean the rotor poles up a bit and the electrodes inside the cap. put it all back together and it should run.
Hey Soapy ,,, what are points? lol I know how you feel; w/ /the pts file thing... duh..... oh and a feeler gauge... is that what they use to... lol again... any thoughts on the track skipping on me... should I try to tighten/adjust it.... loved the thread on using a Briggs w/ recoil as a bypass to the current rope pull.. centrifical clutch should work pretty good. it does pull start easily though so. ar ar... hey what's the little pump like machine up by the mag w/ a little belt to it
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Fri, Jun 2, 2017 8:55 AM
rmyram
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if the idler is not to the front of the track frame then you can tighten the track some, might take a lot of effort.

the little pump thing up by the mag with a belt to it is the governor. there should be a rod/linkage that connects the shaft off the governor to the carburetor to control the position of the throttle plate and limit the maximum speed of the pony engine. there are a few threads on how to dissassemble and service them.

if tuned correctly, the rope start ponies should start on the first or second pull. each pony has it's own little tricks to get them starting consistently. Most of the ones i have i follow this procedure for starting.


[ol]
  • open fuel shut off valve on fuel tank to allow carb to fill.
  • make sure magneto switch is on ( i never use the magneto switch, as i shut the fuel off and let the pony run out of gas in the carb, but it's good to check and make sure someone didn't flip it to off)
  • check oil level, make sure it is not over full, and make sure it doesn't smell like gas, if it is overfull or smells like gas, change it immediately, only takes about a quart of oil.
  • open both drain cocks on the bottom of the cylinder heads (one on each side)
  • set choke to fully on
  • open throttle lever about 1/3
  • roll engine over by hand by turning the flywheel the proper direction of rotation to clear cylinders of any oil or coolant that may have collected. i usually roll it over about 3 revolutions, on the d2 and d4s there is no impulse coupling so you won't get the engine to fire, on my d6's they have an impulse coupling and the pony will actually fire on each cylinder
  • close the petcocks on each side
  • wrap the starting rope around the flywheel at least two full revolutions
  • on d2s and d4's pull the rope as fast as you can, on the d6s you dont have to pull as fast as you can actually pull on it fast enough to disengage the impulse coupling, but a good swift pull works.
  • hopefully your engine starts,
  • shut choke off, let engine warm up, but don't run it to WOT.
  • [/ol]

    There are a lot of assumptions in this, as in the engine is properly tuned, magneto is in good shape and timed correctly, spark plugs are good, compression is decent, carburetor is clean and tuned properly, it takes a while to get the bugs worked out, and to learn how your pony wants to be treated.
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    Fri, Jun 2, 2017 10:49 PM
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