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17A slinging oil while idleing

17A slinging oil while idleing

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puttputtwannabe
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Any ideas why pony motor is covered with oil after big engine idled for half hour or so? Also exhaust full of oil.
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Wed, Apr 28, 2010 7:46 AM
Old Magnet
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I'm still thinking on that one but got to ask if that unit still has the common oil system where the pony gets it oil supply from the main engine?
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Wed, Apr 28, 2010 8:57 AM
puttputtwannabe
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I'm still thinking on that one but got to ask if that unit still has the common oil system where the pony gets it oil supply from the main engine?
Don't know that one, but I believe the big motor's the one slinging oil. There's a small hole in exhaust manifold and oil is all over pony plus coming out of exhaust stack.
Also . do you know how much oil to add to main engine when oil level is at the add mark on the dipstick?
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Wed, Apr 28, 2010 8:39 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to puttputtwannabe:
Don't know that one, but I believe the big motor's the one slinging oil. There's a small hole in exhaust manifold and oil is all over pony plus coming out of exhaust stack.
Also . do you know how much oil to add to main engine when oil level is at the add mark on the dipstick?
Well here's my thinking (it's early and my coffee hasen't kicked in yet)
I suspect you have a hole in the internal heat exchanger section of the intake manifold. If you have a flapper valve on the pony exhaust stack this would allow the main engine to pull a suction on the pony exhaust and possibly draw oil from the pony, especially if it has the combined lube system where there is an endless supply of oil from the main as long as it is running. The pony oil level is maintained by a stand pipe in the sump and passage back to the main sump. This is a gravity feed that would be upset by negative pressure.

If the pony is the self contained lube conversion the oil supply would be limited to what's in the sump and less likely to be drawn into the intake but I suppose it's possible.

What are your oil level observations? Are you loosing oil from the pony and/or main?

You can check for the possibility of a hole in the manifold by putting a rag or piece of paper (or hand) over the main engine exhaust pipe while running the pony with main engine stopped. There should be no flow detected.

Can't think of any other source of oil in the intake other than oil bath air cleaner.

Don't have a known quantity to bring main oil level from add to full.
Instructions are to add oil until full while engine is running.
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Wed, Apr 28, 2010 9:41 PM
jmvmopar
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Well here's my thinking (it's early and my coffee hasen't kicked in yet)
I suspect you have a hole in the internal heat exchanger section of the intake manifold. If you have a flapper valve on the pony exhaust stack this would allow the main engine to pull a suction on the pony exhaust and possibly draw oil from the pony, especially if it has the combined lube system where there is an endless supply of oil from the main as long as it is running. The pony oil level is maintained by a stand pipe in the sump and passage back to the main sump. This is a gravity feed that would be upset by negative pressure.

If the pony is the self contained lube conversion the oil supply would be limited to what's in the sump and less likely to be drawn into the intake but I suppose it's possible.

What are your oil level observations? Are you loosing oil from the pony and/or main?

You can check for the possibility of a hole in the manifold by putting a rag or piece of paper (or hand) over the main engine exhaust pipe while running the pony with main engine stopped. There should be no flow detected.

Can't think of any other source of oil in the intake other than oil bath air cleaner.

Don't have a known quantity to bring main oil level from add to full.
Instructions are to add oil until full while engine is running.
From the way I read it your main engine is slobbering and pushing oil onto the pony motor.

Slobbering is caused by excessive idle time and not enough work. The cylinders get glazed up and the rings aren't steating well. Take your machine and work it under high loads for a few hours. Should clear up the slobbering. And don't idle the main engine any more than you have to.
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Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:17 PM
Mike Walsh
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Reply to jmvmopar:
From the way I read it your main engine is slobbering and pushing oil onto the pony motor.

Slobbering is caused by excessive idle time and not enough work. The cylinders get glazed up and the rings aren't steating well. Take your machine and work it under high loads for a few hours. Should clear up the slobbering. And don't idle the main engine any more than you have to.
If your engine is slobbering, add Marvels Mystery Oil to the fuel at the rate of one quart to five gallons of fuel before you take it out and work it. MMO helps break down deposits and free up the rings. Hopefully you won't be tearing it down.
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Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:57 PM
D7driver
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Reply to Mike Walsh:
If your engine is slobbering, add Marvels Mystery Oil to the fuel at the rate of one quart to five gallons of fuel before you take it out and work it. MMO helps break down deposits and free up the rings. Hopefully you won't be tearing it down.
it could also be unburned fuel mixing with soot to appear like oil. mine will do that in colder weather and leak out between the turbo and the exhaust pipe. By the way my pony has a self contained oil system on my 17A. also i think it takes about a gallon to bring it to full from add.
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Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:47 AM
cojhl2
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Reply to D7driver:
it could also be unburned fuel mixing with soot to appear like oil. mine will do that in colder weather and leak out between the turbo and the exhaust pipe. By the way my pony has a self contained oil system on my 17A. also i think it takes about a gallon to bring it to full from add.
Of the machines I've been around I have never seen a starter motor share oil supply with the big engine. However from this discussion it appears that is not always the case.

Please enligten me. How do I know which is which by observation?
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Mon, May 3, 2010 7:57 PM
64farmboy
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Reply to cojhl2:
Of the machines I've been around I have never seen a starter motor share oil supply with the big engine. However from this discussion it appears that is not always the case.

Please enligten me. How do I know which is which by observation?
on my D2 5U the pony oil system is independent of the main, it holds 1 qt
Restored 1970 ford tractor,1931 Model A PU streetrod, lifted 1978 F150, 1971 VW bug, antique chain saws
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Mon, May 3, 2010 8:07 PM
ccjersey
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The common lube oil pony design was only ever on the vertical 2 cylinder side mount pony motors. The oldest ones were independent, then they changed the design to allow the pony to share the lube oil from the main engine. Later retrofit kits were offered to separate the two and even later engines had independent oil supplies again.

It sounds as if it could be just a bad case of slobbering or unburned fuel mixed with carbon like D7driver says, if the "oil" is coming from the main engine exhaust manifold and dribbling down over the pony. If it's coming from the pony exhaust/main intake, then the scenario OM mentions sounds likely to me.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, May 3, 2010 8:36 PM
cojhl2
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Reply to D7driver:
it could also be unburned fuel mixing with soot to appear like oil. mine will do that in colder weather and leak out between the turbo and the exhaust pipe. By the way my pony has a self contained oil system on my 17A. also i think it takes about a gallon to bring it to full from add.


Just had a discussion w/ Jim Zimerman over this very issue. He told me out of all the issues he has seen almost all are fuel problems. For most of these probs he exclaimed it would be the pump "tappet" clearance and that delays injection timing.

Sorry for the lack of nomenclature I am at my daughters using her laptop and no manuals with me.
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Sat, May 8, 2010 5:14 AM
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