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D7E, compare electric start to pony. long crank times

D7E, compare electric start to pony. long crank times

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bobby1
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I recently was looking at another piece of equipment and the guy had a near identical D7E to ours other than it was electric start. I asked him to fire it up and that sucker just fires right up... Even in these hot temps, our pony machine takes about 30sec of no fuel heating and still does not start clean. It will puke some white smoke and cough for a bit to get it lit. It certainly does not just fire right up. If I had to speculate, I would say low comp since it just billows smoke.

The other owner indicated the valves may need loosened up a bit. I hate to go on a wild goose chase though. I know once running, the machine does not but anything but black smoke on acceleration as usual. It sounds good but I cannot get over how hard it starts. We have a 3208 non-glow in our excavator and it will start right up with no juice at 20-30*.

Are there differences in the electric and pony setups? Is there a crank speed issue possibly? Anything else easy to check before putting the wrenches to it? The main fuel filter is brand new but the primary filter has not yet been changed. That being said, it sure seems to be getting fuel, just not lighting it.
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 3:38 AM
catsilver
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The direct electric start has glow plugs to put heat into the chambers before trying to start, that white smoke is unburnt fuel, no point in adding fuel without enough heat to burn it, run on full compression with the throttle closed until the main starts to 'beat', then open the throttle, and it will fire straight up cleanly. That unburnt fuel washes the cylinders and puts more resistance against the pony by increasing compression.
You can't even compare the 3208 with its direct injection, its a totally different design and will start like a petrol engine.
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 3:50 AM
bobby1
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Reply to catsilver:
The direct electric start has glow plugs to put heat into the chambers before trying to start, that white smoke is unburnt fuel, no point in adding fuel without enough heat to burn it, run on full compression with the throttle closed until the main starts to 'beat', then open the throttle, and it will fire straight up cleanly. That unburnt fuel washes the cylinders and puts more resistance against the pony by increasing compression.
You can't even compare the 3208 with its direct injection, its a totally different design and will start like a petrol engine.
Ah, I totally forgot about the 3208 being DI. I also did not know all electric start D7Es (direct start) had glows. So I take it pulling the heads and adding glows for a direct start mod would be advisable? I think his machine came with the direct start.

I was just trying to determine if I had engine concerns. I guess if he has glows, I will leave this as "I did not research enough before posting"...👍
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 4:59 AM
kracked1
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Reply to bobby1:
Ah, I totally forgot about the 3208 being DI. I also did not know all electric start D7Es (direct start) had glows. So I take it pulling the heads and adding glows for a direct start mod would be advisable? I think his machine came with the direct start.

I was just trying to determine if I had engine concerns. I guess if he has glows, I will leave this as "I did not research enough before posting"...👍
Fastline how did the air cleaner fiasco turn out?
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:16 AM
bobby1
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Reply to kracked1:
Fastline how did the air cleaner fiasco turn out?
It didn't. Still shopping..... Getting a little sad that an air cleaner is holding the whole deal up.
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 8:17 AM
d9gdon
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Reply to bobby1:
It didn't. Still shopping..... Getting a little sad that an air cleaner is holding the whole deal up.
Fastline,

You don't have to pull the heads to put in glow plugs. You just unscrew the pre com chambers out of the head and screw in the type that has the threaded hole for the glow plug. There's a special splined tool that looks like a 7/8 x 2" bolt except it has splines instead of threads that you insert into the pre com chamber after pulling the injector nozzle.
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 8:23 PM
7upuller
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Reply to d9gdon:
Fastline,

You don't have to pull the heads to put in glow plugs. You just unscrew the pre com chambers out of the head and screw in the type that has the threaded hole for the glow plug. There's a special splined tool that looks like a 7/8 x 2" bolt except it has splines instead of threads that you insert into the pre com chamber after pulling the injector nozzle.
Fastline,

30 seconds pony time is too short to heat 'er up. It should run two-three times that long with the compression closed and no fuel to warm it up before applying fuel.
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 9:25 PM
bob
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Reply to 7upuller:
Fastline,

30 seconds pony time is too short to heat 'er up. It should run two-three times that long with the compression closed and no fuel to warm it up before applying fuel.
The starting engine exh goes out a pipe through the main engine intake manifold and that heats the intake air.
Later Bob
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Tue, Jul 24, 2012 9:45 PM
steamdrum1
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Reply to bob:
The starting engine exh goes out a pipe through the main engine intake manifold and that heats the intake air.
Later Bob
On the older tractors, Do the glow plugs come on automaticaly when cranking, or are they on the two position start switch like the later tractors? We have a D6C at work and in warmer weather you don't have to use glow plug heat and it will fire right up. It is still like comparing apples to oranges the D6C being direct injected as opposed to the PC tractors, But I am still curious about the glow plug switch.
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Wed, Jul 25, 2012 4:06 AM
64farmboy
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Reply to 7upuller:
Fastline,

30 seconds pony time is too short to heat 'er up. It should run two-three times that long with the compression closed and no fuel to warm it up before applying fuel.
[quote="7upuller"]Fastline,

30 seconds pony time is too short to heat 'er up. It should run two-three times that long with the compression closed and no fuel to warm it up before applying fuel.[/quote]

Old Cat skinner that did the diversion ditches on our farm always said on a warm day run the pony while smoking one Camel, on a cold day run it while smoking two Pall Malls.
He worked there two weeks and his D8 always started. cold in the morning, warm by afternoon
(that was 1955)
Restored 1970 ford tractor,1931 Model A PU streetrod, lifted 1978 F150, 1971 VW bug, antique chain saws
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Wed, Jul 25, 2012 4:48 AM
rjh-md
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Reply to steamdrum1:
On the older tractors, Do the glow plugs come on automaticaly when cranking, or are they on the two position start switch like the later tractors? We have a D6C at work and in warmer weather you don't have to use glow plug heat and it will fire right up. It is still like comparing apples to oranges the D6C being direct injected as opposed to the PC tractors, But I am still curious about the glow plug switch.
On Your D-7E with pony motor ,crank it over until the oil pressure comes up ,and squirt a little either in the main engine air cleaner ,and see if it fires up better .I worked for a contractor that had 4- D-7e 's ,some electric start and some pony .The pony;s always started harder ,especially in cold weather ,and always used either to start them .The electric start D-7;s had a 2 position switch ,turning the switch counter clockwise ,heated the glow plugs ,usually in cold weather ,we had to heat the glow pluges 1 to 2 minuets before cranking over ,and clock wise to start desiel engine . turning the switch clock wise to start the machine did not activite the glow pluges
The same heat start switch was used on a lot of 24 volt electric start machines ,like the 941 ,951 ,955l,s D-6 ,10k ,D-8 k,920,930 ruber tire loaders
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Wed, Jul 25, 2012 4:57 AM
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