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No. 44 Implement hydraulic pipes on D2

No. 44 Implement hydraulic pipes on D2

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Delta KJ
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I bought a clean D2 [early 4U] late last year but without hydraulics. I found a complete No. 44 hydraulic control including the hydraulic pipes, crossover valve, handle, and drive shaft from a wrecking yard in Sacramento. I have been working on the D2 throughout the holiday season trying getting it "ship shape" and I am finally installing the hydraulic unit on the tractor. The hydraulic control came from a tractor that had a dozer and one implement. I am not using the dozer attachment but want the implement hydraulics to pull a grain drill, etc. on a very limited basis. The hard part; mounting the tank and pump to the tractor went well but the last thing before finishing was to install hydraulic pipes from the crossover valve to the rear of the tractor just behind the seat. The pipes are about 4 inches too short!. I was very surprised and couldn't understand how that was possible. Be aware that I drilled the fender mounting holes for the crossover valve in the exact position that the installation manual dictated and it fit great. The only thing that I can think is that Cat made two different sets of pipes, one for the fender mount fuel tank which would require shorter hydraulic pipes than the seat mount fuel tank, like mine. Frankly I'm alittle disgusted with myself and I'm not sure what to do at this point.
[attachment=12237]44 Implement Pipes.jpg[/attachment]
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 1:26 AM
Ray54
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The seat tanks are adjustable for leg room.I can not remember if it is 1,1.5,or 2 inch increments,because you have to change the pipe in the fuel line.The operators book tells you how.Had a friend with one and always talked about moving his seat back as he was over 6 feet tall but never did as there was no easy way to extend the hydraulic pipe and he only used it a few hours a year.So if you are not a tall guy you could maybe move the seat forward.
Ray
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 3:18 AM
8C 361
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Reply to Ray54:
The seat tanks are adjustable for leg room.I can not remember if it is 1,1.5,or 2 inch increments,because you have to change the pipe in the fuel line.The operators book tells you how.Had a friend with one and always talked about moving his seat back as he was over 6 feet tall but never did as there was no easy way to extend the hydraulic pipe and he only used it a few hours a year.So if you are not a tall guy you could maybe move the seat forward.
Ray
It sounds like you may have the later model D2. They were extended a little longer in the clutch area.
Probably the simplest thing for you to do at this point is cut the pipes and extend them.

Another possibility is the setup from a D4 might fit. I just measured a set real quick and it looks like it is approx.
5' 2" from the flange on the selector valve to the inside of the curve in the back. I can drag them out and get a better measurement if need be.
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 3:47 AM
Delta KJ
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Reply to 8C 361:
It sounds like you may have the later model D2. They were extended a little longer in the clutch area.
Probably the simplest thing for you to do at this point is cut the pipes and extend them.

Another possibility is the setup from a D4 might fit. I just measured a set real quick and it looks like it is approx.
5' 2" from the flange on the selector valve to the inside of the curve in the back. I can drag them out and get a better measurement if need be.
It would be great if the seat were adjustable but my serial number is 4U3630 and the adjustable seats began with serial number 4U6373. My seat is not movable. The later 4U tractors that allowed the clutch to be removed without removing the engine were longer than the earlier models but mine is definitely an earlier 4U. I am thinking of removing the flange that couples the pipes to the crossover valve and welding "extensions" to the pipes where they are most separated and rewelding the flange to the extensions.
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 7:06 AM
Sasquatch
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Reply to Delta KJ:
It would be great if the seat were adjustable but my serial number is 4U3630 and the adjustable seats began with serial number 4U6373. My seat is not movable. The later 4U tractors that allowed the clutch to be removed without removing the engine were longer than the earlier models but mine is definitely an earlier 4U. I am thinking of removing the flange that couples the pipes to the crossover valve and welding "extensions" to the pipes where they are most separated and rewelding the flange to the extensions.
I'm a little confused trying to figure out how your rear pipes could be too short, I have always been under the impression the D2's of your vintage had only one length rear pipe assembly, not a shorter one to accomodate the fender tank models. I've scoured my #44 hydraulic parts book and that covers the 6W, 7W, 8W, and 9W series #44 control units, and it lists only one rear hydraulic line group for the D2, containing the 7F4170 rear pipe assy. This pipe fits the seat-tank models perfectly, but every fender tank unit I've seen with it clearly has the pipe a good 6" behind the seat box, indicitave of the fender length difference between the two setups. Are you sure the pipe you have hasn't already been modified shorter? A picture of your current situation may be helpful too. I'm not trying to second guess your conclusions, just interested in finding out if there is actually two different length rear pipes for these D2's. If it would help, I have two D2's with the #44 rear pipes, I could measure them both to compare specs with yours if you would like.
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 10:51 AM
Delta KJ
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Reply to Sasquatch:
I'm a little confused trying to figure out how your rear pipes could be too short, I have always been under the impression the D2's of your vintage had only one length rear pipe assembly, not a shorter one to accomodate the fender tank models. I've scoured my #44 hydraulic parts book and that covers the 6W, 7W, 8W, and 9W series #44 control units, and it lists only one rear hydraulic line group for the D2, containing the 7F4170 rear pipe assy. This pipe fits the seat-tank models perfectly, but every fender tank unit I've seen with it clearly has the pipe a good 6" behind the seat box, indicitave of the fender length difference between the two setups. Are you sure the pipe you have hasn't already been modified shorter? A picture of your current situation may be helpful too. I'm not trying to second guess your conclusions, just interested in finding out if there is actually two different length rear pipes for these D2's. If it would help, I have two D2's with the #44 rear pipes, I could measure them both to compare specs with yours if you would like.
My 44 hydraulic control is a 4W series which is the predecessor to the 6W. I have a parts book for the 4W series and it shows the same 7F4170 pipe assembly that Toby mentioned and a second pipe assembly with a part number of 3H3481. I need 55" from the face of the flange that couples to the crossover valve to the inside edge of the pipe after it turns 90° at the tank. My pipes are about 51". My pipes are bent more than 90° because, and I am guessing, that the previous owner backed into something that pushed the remotes in toward the seat thus bending the pipes at the angle. My current measurement is based upon bending the pipes back to the original 90° angle. I can't give you a photo because I dropped the pipes off a my blacksmith's shop for him to do the extension work and to correct the bends. Thanks Toby for looking.
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 10:14 PM
B4D2
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Reply to Delta KJ:
My 44 hydraulic control is a 4W series which is the predecessor to the 6W. I have a parts book for the 4W series and it shows the same 7F4170 pipe assembly that Toby mentioned and a second pipe assembly with a part number of 3H3481. I need 55" from the face of the flange that couples to the crossover valve to the inside edge of the pipe after it turns 90° at the tank. My pipes are about 51". My pipes are bent more than 90° because, and I am guessing, that the previous owner backed into something that pushed the remotes in toward the seat thus bending the pipes at the angle. My current measurement is based upon bending the pipes back to the original 90° angle. I can't give you a photo because I dropped the pipes off a my blacksmith's shop for him to do the extension work and to correct the bends. Thanks Toby for looking.


Ahhhh, that explains a lot. What you have is the obscure optional "rear bumper," not hydraulic lines. 😆 I too looked through whatever books I have on the #44 and didn't see a shorter option. I wonder if you might not have a rear pipe from a #41 hydraulic. My parts book shows 2 different rear pipe options, both without a cross over valve. They are PN 1H7237 and the other is 1H7372.
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Sat, Feb 11, 2012 11:06 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to B4D2:


Ahhhh, that explains a lot. What you have is the obscure optional "rear bumper," not hydraulic lines. 😆 I too looked through whatever books I have on the #44 and didn't see a shorter option. I wonder if you might not have a rear pipe from a #41 hydraulic. My parts book shows 2 different rear pipe options, both without a cross over valve. They are PN 1H7237 and the other is 1H7372.
I show the early 4U up to 6372 as using a 7F4170 pipe assy. and the 6373-up using a 3H6481 pipe assy. (think your 3H3481 is a typo)

I can also find reference for the through pipe assy from pump to rear under group #9F4828 for the two valve system but I can't find any info on it. I suspect it is in the D2 #44 parts book only which I don't have.
How early is that 4W pump? The first 484 units didn't come with float provision although I believe it can be added.
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Sun, Feb 12, 2012 2:01 AM
Delta KJ
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I show the early 4U up to 6372 as using a 7F4170 pipe assy. and the 6373-up using a 3H6481 pipe assy. (think your 3H3481 is a typo)

I can also find reference for the through pipe assy from pump to rear under group #9F4828 for the two valve system but I can't find any info on it. I suspect it is in the D2 #44 parts book only which I don't have.
How early is that 4W pump? The first 484 units didn't come with float provision although I believe it can be added.
Yeap! I mistyped the part number; the number that I intended to enter was 3H6481. The serial number for my 4W control is 4W294. I suppose that it is possible that the previous owner could have straightened and rebent the pipes thereby shortening the pipes to better fit a tractor with a fender tank. Because the pipes are abnormally bent at the 90 angle, I can't tell for sure what happened... moving the 90 degree bends would be a major project! Unfortunately, there is no part number on the pipe assembly. When I get it back from the blacksmith I will post a photo. This recently purchased D2 tractor has been in a neighboring farmer's barn for many years and hadn't run for the same many years. He was the original owner and because it did not have hydraulics, it did not get much use. It is compete including all the tinwear and in aesthieticly excellent condition... only a couple of very small dents in the back of the fuel tank. I have changed all the fluids and adjusted everything, repaired the pony exhaust manifold pipe and rebuilt the magneto. Based upon my mechanical assessment, it may need a new master clutch and new rear engine seal. The diesel engine is slobbering out of the exhaust pipe and I hope that after putting it to work for day that it will clear up. If not, I will have to put some new rings in it. Otherwise after painting, it will look like new... well almost! My point is that I want the tractor to be as close to original as possible. If the reworked pipes don't measure up in appearance to the rest of the tractor then I will be out looking for a replacement pipe assembly. I am really anxious to put the tractor to work with the hydraulics and see how well it performs.
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Sun, Feb 12, 2012 4:25 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Delta KJ:
Yeap! I mistyped the part number; the number that I intended to enter was 3H6481. The serial number for my 4W control is 4W294. I suppose that it is possible that the previous owner could have straightened and rebent the pipes thereby shortening the pipes to better fit a tractor with a fender tank. Because the pipes are abnormally bent at the 90 angle, I can't tell for sure what happened... moving the 90 degree bends would be a major project! Unfortunately, there is no part number on the pipe assembly. When I get it back from the blacksmith I will post a photo. This recently purchased D2 tractor has been in a neighboring farmer's barn for many years and hadn't run for the same many years. He was the original owner and because it did not have hydraulics, it did not get much use. It is compete including all the tinwear and in aesthieticly excellent condition... only a couple of very small dents in the back of the fuel tank. I have changed all the fluids and adjusted everything, repaired the pony exhaust manifold pipe and rebuilt the magneto. Based upon my mechanical assessment, it may need a new master clutch and new rear engine seal. The diesel engine is slobbering out of the exhaust pipe and I hope that after putting it to work for day that it will clear up. If not, I will have to put some new rings in it. Otherwise after painting, it will look like new... well almost! My point is that I want the tractor to be as close to original as possible. If the reworked pipes don't measure up in appearance to the rest of the tractor then I will be out looking for a replacement pipe assembly. I am really anxious to put the tractor to work with the hydraulics and see how well it performs.
Cat didn't use a rear seal back then, just the reverse thread to pump the oil back into the crankcase....they do tend to leak more as the rear main bearing wears. There is a bit of "shoestring" packing between the bearing housing and the block but that is rarely a problem.
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Sun, Feb 12, 2012 6:02 AM
Sasquatch
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Reply to Delta KJ:
Yeap! I mistyped the part number; the number that I intended to enter was 3H6481. The serial number for my 4W control is 4W294. I suppose that it is possible that the previous owner could have straightened and rebent the pipes thereby shortening the pipes to better fit a tractor with a fender tank. Because the pipes are abnormally bent at the 90 angle, I can't tell for sure what happened... moving the 90 degree bends would be a major project! Unfortunately, there is no part number on the pipe assembly. When I get it back from the blacksmith I will post a photo. This recently purchased D2 tractor has been in a neighboring farmer's barn for many years and hadn't run for the same many years. He was the original owner and because it did not have hydraulics, it did not get much use. It is compete including all the tinwear and in aesthieticly excellent condition... only a couple of very small dents in the back of the fuel tank. I have changed all the fluids and adjusted everything, repaired the pony exhaust manifold pipe and rebuilt the magneto. Based upon my mechanical assessment, it may need a new master clutch and new rear engine seal. The diesel engine is slobbering out of the exhaust pipe and I hope that after putting it to work for day that it will clear up. If not, I will have to put some new rings in it. Otherwise after painting, it will look like new... well almost! My point is that I want the tractor to be as close to original as possible. If the reworked pipes don't measure up in appearance to the rest of the tractor then I will be out looking for a replacement pipe assembly. I am really anxious to put the tractor to work with the hydraulics and see how well it performs.
Just got back from measuring the D2 pipes, took a while for me to get to it between work and everything else today. Both of mine are exactly 55" from the face of the mounting flange to the inside radius after the 90 degree bend, just as you said you needed to have for yours to work. I could see where the 51" lines you have now would fit a fender tank setup nicely, that's about the difference between the two. It's too bad they didn't make it more of an option for the fender tank machines, as all of the ones I've saw looked like the one in this old photo, with the lines sticking out a bit.

[img]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/TRNelson/Cat%20D2/001-3.jpg[/img]
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Sun, Feb 12, 2012 6:09 AM
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