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reversing tracks to extend life on a D4 ????

reversing tracks to extend life on a D4 ????

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callan
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hi gents,

quick question.
i pulled the LH track off my d4 yesterday and layed it out on the ground.
i noticed all the wear in the chain was on the drive side of the bushings where the reverse side weas relatively good.

firstly, what is the approx wall thickness of these bushings as i reckon there is about 4mm wear. ?

also, seeming as the reverse side is relativelty good, can i simply put the track on "back the front"
to get some more life out of it ? i would of course do this to both tracks

the chains are Berco's and the bushings have already been roatated once so thats not a real option.

thanks
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 6:30 AM
bob
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No, you need to have the pins and bushings turned. This will make up for internal wear and give a new outer bushing surface for the sprocket.
Later Bob
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 7:27 AM
callan
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Reply to bob:
No, you need to have the pins and bushings turned. This will make up for internal wear and give a new outer bushing surface for the sprocket.
Later Bob
thanks bob .

this is for farm use, and not much at that.
not or put back to everyday use.


what sort of pressure do you think i will need to press out the pins and bushings.
has anyone made their own press for this.?
i have a decent lathe and mill, making something does not bother me.
i have a couple of 30 t bottle jacks sitting there.
that or i could use the dozer or one of the tractors hydraulic pump to drive a ram.
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:26 AM
Jack
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Reply to callan:
thanks bob .

this is for farm use, and not much at that.
not or put back to everyday use.


what sort of pressure do you think i will need to press out the pins and bushings.
has anyone made their own press for this.?
i have a decent lathe and mill, making something does not bother me.
i have a couple of 30 t bottle jacks sitting there.
that or i could use the dozer or one of the tractors hydraulic pump to drive a ram.
A track going onto the sprocket while it runs is supposed to go pin first. this way the bushing will be rotated before it makes contact with the sprocket tooth. I know that's not a great explanation. Maybe somebody else can do it better. Anyway, the wear on bushings and sprockets will be extreme if you chain it up backward. Turning pins and bushings is the pretty standard answer for your situation, but be warned. If the wear between pins and bushings is great before they are turned, your tracks will be shortened up but they will be sloppy and hard to keep on the tractor. If one plans to turn P & b, it should be done before they are past about 50% of their life.
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 10:02 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to callan:
thanks bob .

this is for farm use, and not much at that.
not or put back to everyday use.


what sort of pressure do you think i will need to press out the pins and bushings.
has anyone made their own press for this.?
i have a decent lathe and mill, making something does not bother me.
i have a couple of 30 t bottle jacks sitting there.
that or i could use the dozer or one of the tractors hydraulic pump to drive a ram.
If the bushings have been turned once, then you ned new pins and bushings, do yourself a favor and take it to a track shop, or find a better used set.
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 10:05 AM
catsilver
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Reply to STEPHEN:
If the bushings have been turned once, then you ned new pins and bushings, do yourself a favor and take it to a track shop, or find a better used set.
Putting the tracks on the other way round will wear the bushes, and sprockets, much faster, measure how much 'stretch' you have to see how much life is left in those chains, as it will dictate how much longer they will last before destroying the sprockets, which is expensive, then decide when to buy new or some good used chains.
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:42 PM
drujinin
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Reply to catsilver:
Putting the tracks on the other way round will wear the bushes, and sprockets, much faster, measure how much 'stretch' you have to see how much life is left in those chains, as it will dictate how much longer they will last before destroying the sprockets, which is expensive, then decide when to buy new or some good used chains.
In previous threads on "Pin Pressing", it pretty looks like 100 tons which when the move, they come out like missiles.
I would be leery of building a press.
My 2 Cents,
Jeff
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Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:41 PM
mbscat
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Reply to drujinin:
In previous threads on "Pin Pressing", it pretty looks like 100 tons which when the move, they come out like missiles.
I would be leery of building a press.
My 2 Cents,
Jeff
My dad rebuilt the tracks on his D4 30 years ago using a Hein Werner Porta-Power. He used the King-pin press attachment which was basically a large C-Clamp. His unit has 10 tons press and 6 tons of pull. This worked great when it came to pulling the master link pin, he just screwed a bolt into pull the plug out and ended up with the entire pin. At that time he was turning the pins and bushings on a set of rails he had purchased because his were completely trashed.
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Wed, Feb 8, 2012 1:26 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to mbscat:
My dad rebuilt the tracks on his D4 30 years ago using a Hein Werner Porta-Power. He used the King-pin press attachment which was basically a large C-Clamp. His unit has 10 tons press and 6 tons of pull. This worked great when it came to pulling the master link pin, he just screwed a bolt into pull the plug out and ended up with the entire pin. At that time he was turning the pins and bushings on a set of rails he had purchased because his were completely trashed.
Must have been some loose fitting pins to get by with 10 ton on the D4.
I get by with 30-ton (just barely) on the D4 but if the pin ends are smeared from rubbing on the guards I have to get out the 60 ton cylinder. Don't think I'd build a press with less than 100 ton capacity if your doing a variety of track.
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Wed, Feb 8, 2012 5:03 AM
catsilver
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Must have been some loose fitting pins to get by with 10 ton on the D4.
I get by with 30-ton (just barely) on the D4 but if the pin ends are smeared from rubbing on the guards I have to get out the 60 ton cylinder. Don't think I'd build a press with less than 100 ton capacity if your doing a variety of track.
This seems an expensive and time consuming way to repair a set of tracks, especially when you haven't checked the track stretch yet or if there is enough life left in the rails to be worthwhile repairing, measure the height of the links, roller diameters and roller flange to pin boss clearance, then come back to us for wear figures.Maybe also a photo of the whole U/C on each side.
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Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:29 AM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Must have been some loose fitting pins to get by with 10 ton on the D4.
I get by with 30-ton (just barely) on the D4 but if the pin ends are smeared from rubbing on the guards I have to get out the 60 ton cylinder. Don't think I'd build a press with less than 100 ton capacity if your doing a variety of track.
Luckily Callan has one of the best track repair guys in Oz just down the road from him who rebuilds and sells new tracks for all models of crawlers, big and small, his name is Joe and he talks about pins and bushes often needing big tonnages to split tracks, like 60 tons or more on the initial push, and he said the bushes can and do explode when they are tight and worn through, steel shards fly everywhere like a grenade, I assume that is why the Cat Dealer here in my State now outsource their track work, I believe to Komatsu.

I reckon there are certain jobs on these old Cats that it's worth paying the expert who has the right gear and experience and skills to do the job safely each time, and track work is one of them, grinding crankshafts is another. Joe only charges $50 or $60 a hour, that's cheap for a guy with 55 years crawler repair, and operator experience, and if you help him I think it only takes a day for 2 guys to turn all your old ones, or install new pins and bushes, his $500 labour bill is a good investment to see it done safely, quickly and properly the first time. If it looks easy after doing your first ones then go ahead and set up you own press for the next set you have to do, but I doubt you could set up a good safe track press for $500, and then only to see it used once in a blue moon. Getting the old track plate bolts in and out can be a trick too Joe said, if they are old and worn, and so you need a good 3/4", or 1" rattle gun for just that part of the job.
Regards
Mike
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Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:48 AM
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