Citric Acid mix

What model Cat are you referring to Dennie? The cavities are linked on the D2 that you have been working on but you mentioned thinking of buying a D6, anyway, make sure your brake inspection covers are sealed too so you can get more acid in there, you will want those housings completely full because there is a roller bearing right up top that can sieze your linkages too.

I'd use about 2 pounds of acid in enough hot water to fill both compartments and leave it there for a week with the steering clutch levers pulled fully back and held with wire or rope. After a week I'd then get my pressure washer and squirt water in there from every angle I could to remove the white film that is a by product of the process. ("Fixer" over on ACME said he uses a small pump to circulate the citric acid around a cooling system for example, to prevent the white sludge settling out of the solution and I like that idea).
My one concern with this project is the oil "cups" of your thrust release bearings in the steering clutch packs may suffer from the sludge settling in them and consequently preventing oil from reaching the bearings at a later date, but hey, right now you are looking at pulling the tractor apart to fix the problem so this acid bath is a last resort, and in any case on my D2 4U those oil "cups" were already choked with old clutch lining dust and dirt.

The nice thing about citric acid is it is fairly benign when mixed with water and I've never had any skin burning sensations or rashes after repeatedly having my hands or arms in the solution fishing out parts. It works best in warm weather, you will see it bubbling within a few minutes, though I just discovered here in Oz that after prolonged soaking for 2 weeks in cold winter weather that I got some etching on two pilot motor heads I was treating, as the acid was settling out of the solution on frosty mornings and biting into the machined steel!!

In my defence I had severe over heating problems in the reconditioned pilot motor from rust flakes choking up the head cooling passages on #1 cylinder that pressure washing repeatedly did not shift, hence the 2 week experimental soak, and I had been told citric acid will not attack clean or good steel, just the rust, I no longer believe that and have a bill for head machining to prove it!!

Anyway, I'm pretty confident citric acid it is your best bet at this point after having just pulled my D2 clutches apart, kerosene would be my second choice, but definitely not diesel. I found those clutch plates weld themselves to each other and in my tractor the previous owner had actually torn the rivets out of the lining of one single fibre plate by "stomping on the brakes", or "pulling a D9 up a hill", or by "driving it into a tree" or whatever to free them up, the other 7 fibre plates were still "welded" to their adjoining plain steel plate and not releasing.

Just remember to check for water in your tranny and final drive housing once you finish, on my tractor all the seals were shot, maybe you will be luckier than me.
Good luck Denny, now go buy that D6!
regards
Mike

Mike, 👋 Brother its good to hear from you. I hope you and your family are well. Thanks for the info and yes its still my D2 I'm working on. I've been running it around here doing stump work, grading and other "play things" I still need to build my Grandson his motocross track.
The D2 project is not obviously finished, I hate to drop a project in the middle and of course I'm attached to my little "kitty". The D6 is still available but I can not afford both machines and to be perfectly honest would hate to sell the D2. I'd feel like a traitor!😈
I'll get the steering clutch straightened out , either by luck or disassembly, then clean and paint by next year. If the D 6 is still around then I'll look into it again at that time. A fixed income is a bear sometimes! still haven't worked on our seat project, unfortunately paying work has to come first!👍
Regards Dennie

Keep the D2 for the obvious reasons!
Its fun to operate, economical and the parts aren't as heavy! The excuse I would use is in case I get one tractor stuck, I need to keep the other around to pull it out!
I wonder why Mike says "Kero" is OK but not "Diesel"?
If the fibers of the clutch plates are as bad as Mike describes and mine were on one clutch then no matter what you soak it in, they will never come free. Most of the steel plates were badly pitted and thin in that side with the moisture laden fiber plates stuck to them. I used an ATF and Diesel mix inside my clutch housings, though I used the Citric Acid treatment on a bunch of other tractor parts. Citric Acid will assist in disassembly as it will remove a lot of the rust from inside the cases.

[quote="drujinin"]Keep the D2 for the obvious reasons!
Its fun to operate, economical and the parts aren't as heavy! The excuse I would use is in case I get one tractor stuck, I need to keep the other around to pull it out!
I wonder why Mike says "Kero" is OK but not "Diesel"?
If the fibers of the clutch plates are as bad as Mike describes and mine were on one clutch then no matter what you soak it in, they will never come free. Most of the steel plates were badly pitted and thin in that side with the moisture laden fiber plates stuck to them. I used an ATF and Diesel mix inside my clutch housings, though I used the Citric Acid treatment on a bunch of other tractor parts. Citric Acid will assist in disassembly as it will remove a lot of the rust from inside the cases.[/quote]
I must admit I've become attached to my "kitty" it would be hard to sell for that reason alone. My buddy has the D6 and he's not actively trying to sell it anyway so it will be there until I can swing it. :flypig: I stopped down at his shop the other night and had an adult beverage with him, He offered to let me take it and pay him later but I've always worked on the premise of "cash on the barrel head" Besides I haven't got my wife totally convinced yet😆 Yep we are all whipped to a certain extent. Projects always go better if everyone agrees with it.
Regards Dennie👋

LOL...
Dang Dennie your on it there. I cannot convince my wife the D2 was a good idea(after already having the D6) because she wants the D2 to turn left without having to back up the critter each time. Silly woman thinks everything should work as intended BEFORE you buy it, use it or look at it). If that were the case she never would have stayed married to me... LOL :wacko:
I have the advantage of having ti out of sight(and her mind) until I can get it to turn but I am really interested in how your Citric acid solution turns out because if it works as well as others have said/done then it may be the right trick for me too.

Anyway, keep posting on it so I can follow you along in it.. By the way where did you get the citric acid? Haven't been able to find it locally here in Wash state so far.

Thanks

Tom

LOL...
Dang Dennie your on it there. I cannot convince my wife the D2 was a good idea(after already having the D6) because she wants the D2 to turn left without having to back up the critter each time. Silly woman thinks everything should work as intended BEFORE you buy it, use it or look at it). If that were the case she never would have stayed married to me... LOL :wacko:
I have the advantage of having ti out of sight(and her mind) until I can get it to turn but I am really interested in how your Citric acid solution turns out because if it works as well as others have said/done then it may be the right trick for me too.

Anyway, keep posting on it so I can follow you along in it.. By the way where did you get the citric acid? Haven't been able to find it locally here in Wash state so far.

Thanks

Tom

I got my Citric acid from a food store/ restuarant supplier, look on Google, I recall seeing a few home beer brewer outlets advertising it too. From memory I just paid $US160 for two 40 pounds bags delivered to my ranch.

Hiya Dennie, I'm with you on paying now too, I like to sleep at nite with both eyes closed, oh, and having Mrs. Dennie onside when discussing buying a new Cat is a good idea too, or else she might just become Mrs. Ex Dennie and take the D2 and D6😆

The reason I would not use diesel is because one of my clutch packs had completely disintigrated the fibre plates from oil soakage, every single one was knackered and just fell apart in my hands once I pulled the springs, sure, it happened over a long period, but it did destroy the linings. That tractor would have turned happily for a day or two after Dennie sold it, but not much longer. From what I can see two main things jam those D2 clutch packs
(1) Swollen from rust building up on the faces of the metal plates taking the free play out of the springs, and the free travel by the plates within the brake drum as the splines become choked with rust
or
(2) The fibre sections of the plates "welding" themselves to the adjoining metal plates after years of non useage. I had to use a hammer and screwdriver to chisel my plates apart on one side of the tractor they were "welded" to each other so tight, it was on this side just one single fibre plate had torn all the rivets after being "shocked" or muscled into slipping. Again, that tractor would steer fine for 2 days after Dennie sold it, but that clutch pack was not durable in my opinion. If I eventually sell a Cat I need to look the person in the eye when I tell them it's a really good tractor and be confident it will build a motocross track, not just do a town parade once a year.

There are two needle roller bearings up top in the linkage that are hidden within the tranny housing that on my tractor were badly rusted also, though not enough to seize the system. Anyway, that is why I'd use Citric acid over diesel on frozen D2 steering clutch packs, you are fighting rust build up in those normally dry housings , not a lack of lubrication.

Glad to hear you are getting some paying work Dennie, smart fella like you is a real bonus to any business, I'm surprised it's taken you so long.😆
All the best, and happy July 4th, I think the Founding Fathers can be very proud of what they achieved in crafting the Constitution.
Mike

Mike, I've been working off & on for my Son, He's a contractor and I do his hardwood floors, stairs , finish work and run the roofing crew when needed. He doesn't work the "old Man" to hard and I enjoy getting out with the guys. The economy has slowed his business down as well so his extra work I do above his normal crew work hasn't been as heavy. Back 30 years ago I had to sell my case 310 bulldozer I restored to pay for my first divorce. I miss that old crawler!😈
Take Care
Dennie

[quote="64farmboy"]Mike, I've been working off & on for my Son, He's a contractor and I do his hardwood floors, stairs , finish work and run the roofing crew when needed. He doesn't work the "old Man" to hard and I enjoy getting out with the guys. The economy has slowed his business down as well so his extra work I do above his normal crew work hasn't been as heavy. Back 30 years ago I had to sell my case 310 bulldozer I restored to pay for my first divorce. I miss that old crawler!😈
Take Care
Dennie[/quote]
Dennie, if your own kids won't give you a job then there is something seriously wrong don't you think, I mean I keep reminding my 3 teenage hooligans that infantcide is still practised in some third world countries and if they keep bugging me I might take em there for a vacation, the catch is their plane tickets need only be one wayers😆😆😆

When you flush those clutch compartments Dennie do it in the morning so they have a full summer day to start drying out, that citric acid does a beautiful job on rusty steel, you just need to be aware that you have raw steel once again in there ready to rust up if it stays wet.

Hey, you are 10 times smarter than me, you figured that already👍 I'd also consider using a real thin oil like ATF to lube the thrust bearings the first few times and do it often to hopefully help flush the citric acid by product/ crud through the oil lines into, and on out of those thrust bearing housings, because the oil lines are not that big and you don't want the thin white crud to dry in there. Just figure on riding the brakes for an hour or two to dry everything out in there and doing lots of donut work, hopefully you will find the clutch pack starts to free up. If it doesn't, call drudginin and then go get a couple of Jerry cans of diesel😖mokin:
Good luck
Mike