CATERPILLAR and ACMOC relationship

As David Wills reported in a previous thread,we have over 1000 Cat machines in ownership by members of Chapter 2 .The chairman and directors of chapter 2 have been trying to get a discounted parts scheme set up with Finning.Can anyone from Caterpillar inc. HQ help to fullfill our request? With over a 1000 machines its the equivelant to a very large plant hire firm. ACMOC members raise thousands of pounds for good causes and also promote Caterpillar products in publications. ie 70year old machines still working hard,proving Caterpillar products durability.Can the administrators of this board help?
Martyn
Chapter 2

Martin,

With over 200 views on this thread so far, I'm surprised that your question hasn't generated a single response \ comment \ debate from the wider ACMOC membership \ BB users?

Why is everyone so slient on this topic?

As noted by Martin, Chapter 2 did seek to forge a closer relationship with Finning UK Limited in 2005. After nearly 12 months of discussions, representatives of Finning UK Limited did indicate that they were willing to offer discounted consumable items to ACMOC members purchasing consumable items (filters, fluids etc, etc) for the restoration of vintage Caterpillar equipment.

Following management changes within Finning in early 2006, this offer was promptly withdrawn and even denied that discussions had ever taken place to this effect?

In the UK, dealers seem to focus solely on selling new machines and pay little attention to supporting vintage equipment. We even offered to support Finning in new equipment launches and provide a small vintage equipment displays at the UK Operator Challenge Final, but this offer was flatly turned down due to a perceived lack of a suitable area for the display (even though the final was being held at the Cat Backhoe Loader assembly plant at Desford?).

The stock answer I received from Finning's, is that the current Classic Parts Offer from Cat provides this support! But when you closely examine the list of Classic's machines included they only start from 1960 upwards, all the early J & U series tractors are excluded? Don't Cat regard these machines as classic tractors or are they ignorant about the number of classic J & U tractors in existence around the world?

Shouldn't the ACMOC BoD be doing more to promote the extension of the range of machines included in the classic parts offer for the benefit of the membership?

Come on BB Users, don't hide behind the PC, let's have a healthly debate on this issue, let's put pressure on the BoD to attempt to do more for the membership!

David

cat want top dollar for everything, always have always will no exceptions.
pity;

I think that the club could produce and sell more diecast models and use some of the profits to make some reproduction parts. The construction collectors like 1:50 scale. I would concentrate on that scale to capture more of the diecast collector dollars.
An oil guage would be a good start for a repro part. Just my two cents.

I will offer my $.02 worth even though I am not a member of any chapter. You who regularily peruse these postings will realize that I have been weeks looking for a full set of bearings for a D2 5U engine. Cat has the rod bearings--four bearings for close to $700.00 There are no more mains.

It wasn't so many years ago that I recall Cat, like rolls-Royce, claimed to have every part for every model that they ever produced. After what, 90 years more or less? This would be quite an undertaking. Can't blame them for backpedaling just a little.

All large corporations figure they can boost the bottom line, and stock value, by replacing with new machines rather than support repair services, Cat and RR included. It seems to me, however, that if this is their philosophy they should make a model that can truly replace a D2, and they do not. If a guy needs a wheelbarrow he doesn't want to shell out for a Mack truck. Contrary to what some importers might say, there is no crawler tractor that can replace a D2 and I say this from years of orchard experience running them. So of all the models to drop from the parts line, why in h___ the D2? It just doesn't make any sense.

I'd have to say, don't expect any great amount of consideration from Cat. It doesn't fit the template for the corporate model in capitalism as practiced in USA.

Jack😠

I think Caterpillar inc. should start taking more notice of ACMOC,also I think that the US based directors should make representations to Caterpillar, that the membership feel that they just tolerate us,give us very little in return for the publicity we generate with our machines.I think we should have a questionair sent to all members of ACMOC on their expectations.Chapter 2 has done this and it was found very usefull.BB administrators,what do you think? We could gain more members if we could show we are more proactive with Caterpillar.

Jack I don,t know if NAPA auto parts stores can help you or not to get some bearings.Many of the cat bearings were Federal Mogul so maybe check with the Co. on getting some bearings.

Jack, I just ran down this bearing supply house in NJ & you could try them for some engine bearings. The # is 1-(800) 466-2327 & it,s the Tri-State Bearing Co. 280 North Midland Ave. Saddle Brook NJ 07663 Also their E-mail is [email protected]

On a more positive note I have found my local Finning Caterpillar branch most helpfull in any requests I have made to them.But they as agents are in a way dictated to what the can and can't do.This was not made easy as they have gone through a reorganisation.There has got to be someone out there that can ask the questions on our behalf to Caterpillar inc.

Thanks, SJ. I'll give TriState a try soon. As I said in another thread, I've had to take a work break on behalf of the boss who will cut off my groceries if I don't get her some results in a hurry! NAPA looked in every book they had, struck out but gave me an 800 number to call.(?) If I eventually get some results, I promise to post them. I can't be the only one in this boat.😕

You can contact CAT directly, I've done so a few times, the first time not even having a clue to whom my correspondence was directed to, as it was via e-mail, and was an inquiry about a particular series of tractor, the 4T military D7's, I currently own 2 of them. The response I got was from an archivist, and she sent me a package that I highly appreciated. For the most part, it would probably become an annoyance if a large group of us were to plague the archive and other departments with inquiries like these, so I felt priviliged to get a response and was thankful that my inquiry was even acknowledged.

The 2nd time I made correspondence was initiated when attempting to introduce this organization to Midland Press who formerly provided the Caterpillar Legendary Literature under license from CAT. They did not know of ACMOC at the time, so I forwarded information to them about the organization, in an attempt to be helpful to members and others alike. CAT pulled the program from Midland in March '05 if memory serves me correctly, and I spoke directly with the person handling the program at CAT and forwarded information about ACMOC and ACME, also posted on both BB's so that people knew about this program. I had hoped that a more substantial representative of either organizations would have furthered the process and fostered a relationship with CAT and this literature program, possibly making some connection, discounts or something, I even suggested that CAT take an ad out in the monthy magazine to get the word out, and it seemed well received. I also recall speaking to someone at Midland about other things besides servicemans reference books, parts catalogs and operators instructions, such as old advertisements and the like, they made mention it may have been possible to offer them for sale, wanted to know if members here had an interest, they would be tagged as re-prints, so as not to ruin the value of original items out there. It seemed that some communication may have helped further the process, see if people would purchase these for nostalgic and decorative purposes etc. Was just an idea, but it did not get much press exposure if you know what I mean. However, it's hard to say what is possible without trying, this is just an example. I felt it important to make sure that sources for manuals were known to people here, especially after seeing what poor quality a product Jensales offered for a considerable amount of money, far better to get an original off e-bay or a re-print of decent quality, not photo copies with a spiral binding from a company that would not answer any questions I had about their products. There is a regular demand for manuals, noticing this, I kind of tried to get involved and help a little, I would really have enjoyed being able to help further, I sent the president of the organization at that time, a correspondence, but it fell on deaf ears I think. It seemed that some connection might have been able to have been made there, the people I spoke to were receptive, but like anything without follow up, nothing ever is accomplished. Not much, maybe small relationship with the organization, possibly a discount based on the volume of sales through ACMOC, is what I had imagined possible.

What is suggested about parts, is a tall order to say the least. From their standpoint, even getting someone to listen ought to be interesting to say the least, but if it's presented in a manner that gets someones attention, like the 1000 tractors represented by a chapter, series of events where the manufacturer is highly visible, the overall membership of the club and amount of tractors and equipment represented entirely, you are still fighting against a campaign where new equipment sales is the name of the game.

The machines of the past were certainly some of the finest earthmoving and agricultural equipment made, demonstrated by how many have made it this far, be it a one owner pampered in a shed in the off season, one brought back from sitting in a fence row, or one that has been continually rebuilt and still in service. The engineering that went into developing these tractors is amazing and so is the durability of them, which is complimented by a historical organization comprised of members who have such admiration for these machines, be it work, play, part time work or just shows. It's an amazing thing that was started by some collectors in the northwest years ago, and who would have thought the popularity of restoring these machines would have grown to what it is today. With that said, there would seem to be enough interest to organize an approach to the subject about this potential relationship with the manufacturer.

It's funny, I used to marvel at the fact that when I operated earthmoving equipment as a full time job, how far behind in age the equipment was to the current time. We were running equipment that was 20-30 years old at the time and keeping it running, I used to not only haul machines in/out of the local dealer Foley, in NJ, but used to make parts runs for the the mechanics whenever I was free. The overhead of being in that business is probably the highest of any, but somehow it worked with the right people running the jobs and operating the equipment, some which was older than I at the time !


I'm not sure how one could organize this and determine what the most popular parts would be to consider, we see people looking for things all the time, like D-2 U/C, and so many other series of machines out there. I think people realize that even a tired old cat can still do work, just slower and less efficicient, but that's ok to a weekender, hobbyist, small contractor, be it someone developing a piece of property for personal use, or small scale agriculture work, whatever may be the case, that work they would like to see a new machine doing, so if the parts supporting older ones are readily available, does it hurt new sales ? Seems like it could, but with the cost of new, only contractors and mining companies etc. will be looking at new or late model equipment seriously. So the iron that is out there, slowly becomes obsolete and costly to rebuild or make use of, eliminating the older used iron market to a degree. It's still useful, makes a great hobby, and even some of the worst basket cases have been restored because of collector interest, so one would think the interest is strong. Look at how many dismantlers are still out there, better than the scapman getting them, like some of the hoards of NOS parts that gone to the melting pot. I know I'd never pay a contractor for earthwork, either rent late model and do it myself or own something older in reasonable condition, or even rebuild one if I had to. How many of us are out there that support these because they are still useful, probably quite a few. Then look at all the darned 8K's that have been rebuilt for example, specifically for contractors vs new, I've ran plenty of them myself. I have no idea about the economics here, but even with all the machines in this organization, you are up against a big wheel here.

I'm kind of wondering a bit here, but the bottom line it's going to be a hard sell, some of these parts like large castings or crankshafts for some of the old motors, how can you convince a large company that has discontinued them to re-consider ? Consumable items like U/C parts, well that may be an easier sell, look at all the old D6's - D8's out there still working, considere that between D7 7M's 3T's and 4T's there were just about 50,000 built, there are still a few of those going, there is some substance here. How many of the smaller ones and those from the 20's-30's with more collector interest, such a vast array of parts to consider, it's mind boggling how one or a group would attempt to make an approach to a company focused on current models. Not to mention there are still a lot of valid part numbers out there, suprisingly.


Another thing comes to mind, fabrication drawings. After seeing the machining capability of some of the people here, you would think that if the manufacturer would in no way ever tool up or fabricate obsolete parts, license could be granted to someone with the ability to do so, I am aware that you can already get drawings for individual needs, this is an area to explore. It also seems that none of this would be possible without some hefty expense, like when someone needs something cast, you need a group of people wanting the same part to make it feasible. There are already some reproduction parts being made, could this be expanded in the private sector under licensing ?

A great discussion topic without a doubt, but it would seem a very hard sell, and would take quite an effort just to get recognized, anything is possible, but it sure appears to be one tall order to make progress on, nothing worth doing is ever easy !