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anti seize history question

anti seize history question

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wendell f. stegner
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Hello there in Catland, I had a thought/question steaming from the thread about getting old bolts out without breaking. I am a big promoter of useing anti-seize on many applications. I get this from my dad which is a Vienam vet which he was in a engineering group (arrived over there around two weeks before hell broke loose in the Tet offensive) and he had taught diesel and cat. mechanics at a Army school in Virgina before that. I am pretty proud of him and many other men that served during that conflict. He has saved my rearend and that of others when its came to engines of all makes. He told me when I was very young ( when I would watch or think that I was daddy's little helper as he was overhauling an engine) that caterpillar invented and possible held the pateint for the original anti-seize. He still has a original Cat can of anti-seize ca.1965-1970. Is this fact or a good story? My dad has many good stories which I believe are true of his and the Army use of Cats during that time. Many I can tell word for word as if he was telling them. I love and eat that kind of stuff up. What do you guys know about Caterpillars involment in the developement of the Great Anti-Seize, if true?
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Mon, Mar 30, 2009 11:35 PM
side-seat
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Wasn't antiseize made from lead particals in oil originally? I have an old can of NAPA leaded antiseize that I use on occaision.
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 3:55 AM
SJ
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Reply to side-seat:
Wasn't antiseize made from lead particals in oil originally? I have an old can of NAPA leaded antiseize that I use on occaision.
I have no proof about the maker but I kind of doubt that Cat was the original maker but at the dealer shop way back in the late 50s if I recall we used a brand called Never-Seize but I really liked the Cat kind and looked like copper salve.
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 5:53 AM
Catmatt
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Reply to SJ:
I have no proof about the maker but I kind of doubt that Cat was the original maker but at the dealer shop way back in the late 50s if I recall we used a brand called Never-Seize but I really liked the Cat kind and looked like copper salve.
we call it never seize too. Growing up in the shop I was always told to use it by the old timers. I still use it, actually John Deere's version is really good!
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 8:05 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to Catmatt:
we call it never seize too. Growing up in the shop I was always told to use it by the old timers. I still use it, actually John Deere's version is really good!
Can you post a photo of that old can? That brings back memories when my dad and I used to never sieze undercarriage bolts back in the seventies.
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 8:15 AM
D4Jim
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Reply to Rome K/G:
Can you post a photo of that old can? That brings back memories when my dad and I used to never sieze undercarriage bolts back in the seventies.
The first anti-seize came out in the early 50's under the name Kopr-Kote (spelling ???) and was used primarily in the oil fields. I don't know who made it but there have been numerous improvements in anti-seize compounds since its inception. I remember using Kopr-Kote in the late 50's and early 60's.

Cats Forever

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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 10:06 AM
John in Wy
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Reply to D4Jim:
The first anti-seize came out in the early 50's under the name Kopr-Kote (spelling ???) and was used primarily in the oil fields. I don't know who made it but there have been numerous improvements in anti-seize compounds since its inception. I remember using Kopr-Kote in the late 50's and early 60's.
We use it at the mine I work at and have broken off bolts on the idler caps and the mech take a punch and hammer and unscrews the broken bolt tapping it around and around because they put it in with the anti-sieze. I have 2 cans of it from napa, good stuff. John
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 10:44 AM
OzDozer
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Reply to D4Jim:
The first anti-seize came out in the early 50's under the name Kopr-Kote (spelling ???) and was used primarily in the oil fields. I don't know who made it but there have been numerous improvements in anti-seize compounds since its inception. I remember using Kopr-Kote in the late 50's and early 60's.
It sounds like a good story .. but it's highly unlikely to be true. Cat are manufacturers of construction, earthmoving and mining equipment, and have no interest in producing a product such as an Anti-Seize compound.
Further proof is in the fact that Cat have NEVER as much as used one oz of Anti-Seize upon assembly in the factory .. and if they had .. all of us, who ever worked on Cats, would have been most appreciative .. 🙄

I'm with D4Jim on this one. My earliest experience with Anti-Seize was with Kopr-Kote, which I am reasonably certain was the first dedicated Anti-Seize. It was first produced in 1949, by a company called Jet-Lube, and is still produced today ..

http://www.sovereign-publications.com/jetlube.htm

From the introduction of Kopr-Kote, other Anti-Seize products followed, from other companies. All were formulated differently, with aluminum and graphite being popular, along with copper and molybdenum .. and nickel for high temperature positions.

Brand names I know of, are .. Copr-Slip, Copaslip, Never-Seez, Neva-Seize, Cop-Graf, Nickel-Graf, Kleen-Seize, and a dozen others. Manufacturers of Anti-Seize abound, with Molyslip, Loctite, Bostik, Rocol, and Jet-Lube amongst the leaders of probably 30 or 40 manufacturers of Anti-Seize compounds.
Many Anti-Seize compounds are designed for specific industry use, leading to a wide range of Anti-Seize compounds.
I'm not sure who produces Caterpillar Anti-Seize, but its likely to be a company already producing the product, and it's just rebranded for Caterpillar.

As a footnote .. be aware that Anti-Seize applied to threads can affect torque values, as the different types of Anti-Seize have differing degrees of "slipperiness".
The ones containing Molybdenum are the most slippery, whilst those with Nickel in them are often a drag on thread lubrication, meaning you need to increase torque values.
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 10:47 AM
Jack
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Reply to OzDozer:
It sounds like a good story .. but it's highly unlikely to be true. Cat are manufacturers of construction, earthmoving and mining equipment, and have no interest in producing a product such as an Anti-Seize compound.
Further proof is in the fact that Cat have NEVER as much as used one oz of Anti-Seize upon assembly in the factory .. and if they had .. all of us, who ever worked on Cats, would have been most appreciative .. 🙄

I'm with D4Jim on this one. My earliest experience with Anti-Seize was with Kopr-Kote, which I am reasonably certain was the first dedicated Anti-Seize. It was first produced in 1949, by a company called Jet-Lube, and is still produced today ..

http://www.sovereign-publications.com/jetlube.htm

From the introduction of Kopr-Kote, other Anti-Seize products followed, from other companies. All were formulated differently, with aluminum and graphite being popular, along with copper and molybdenum .. and nickel for high temperature positions.

Brand names I know of, are .. Copr-Slip, Copaslip, Never-Seez, Neva-Seize, Cop-Graf, Nickel-Graf, Kleen-Seize, and a dozen others. Manufacturers of Anti-Seize abound, with Molyslip, Loctite, Bostik, Rocol, and Jet-Lube amongst the leaders of probably 30 or 40 manufacturers of Anti-Seize compounds.
Many Anti-Seize compounds are designed for specific industry use, leading to a wide range of Anti-Seize compounds.
I'm not sure who produces Caterpillar Anti-Seize, but its likely to be a company already producing the product, and it's just rebranded for Caterpillar.

As a footnote .. be aware that Anti-Seize applied to threads can affect torque values, as the different types of Anti-Seize have differing degrees of "slipperiness".
The ones containing Molybdenum are the most slippery, whilst those with Nickel in them are often a drag on thread lubrication, meaning you need to increase torque values.
I'm assuming that the product you refer to is something different from Kopper Kote, which is a K&W product for head and manifold gaskets--high temp. I'd be amazed if there were any anti-sieze properties to that stuff. It was a sort of shellac with very small metalic copper particles and it dried pretty solid.

I don't know if Cat ever got into chemistry, but they put their own label on a lot of stuff that they find acceptable. If they located an anti-sieze material they very well might have marketed it under their label. Sort of like coolant conditioner, antifreeze, motor oil, filters, hose...
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 11:04 AM
D4Jim
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Reply to Jack:
I'm assuming that the product you refer to is something different from Kopper Kote, which is a K&W product for head and manifold gaskets--high temp. I'd be amazed if there were any anti-sieze properties to that stuff. It was a sort of shellac with very small metalic copper particles and it dried pretty solid.

I don't know if Cat ever got into chemistry, but they put their own label on a lot of stuff that they find acceptable. If they located an anti-sieze material they very well might have marketed it under their label. Sort of like coolant conditioner, antifreeze, motor oil, filters, hose...
Thanks to OzD I now know Kopr-Kote was made by Jet-Lube Inc and when. Thanks OzD.
Found a tech sheet on the stuff.
http://www.pipelinesupply.com/specsheet/Kopr_Kote.pdf

Cats Forever

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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 11:49 AM
Kelly
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Reply to D4Jim:
Thanks to OzD I now know Kopr-Kote was made by Jet-Lube Inc and when. Thanks OzD.
Found a tech sheet on the stuff.
http://www.pipelinesupply.com/specsheet/Kopr_Kote.pdf
[quote]OzD, I'm not sure who produces Caterpillar Anti-Seize, but its likely to be a company already producing the product, and it's just rebranded for Caterpillar[/quote]

At one time, when I was more active in the trades, Caterpillars copper based anti-seize and sealing compound was made especially for them by FEL-PRO Inc., Skokie, Illinois.

Kelly
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Tue, Mar 31, 2009 12:30 PM
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