Hi Scott,
You are correct, the winch should not be spinning when the main clutch is disengaged. I would not be surprised that it would be spinning with the amount of drag that the oil clutch can transmit when cold. These machines are equipped with a clutch brake, this is activated by pushing the main clutch lever to the full forward position. When in working condition, this is enough to stop the clutch spinning when disengaged. The clutch brake is an external component located in between the clutch and transmission housings, it's easily adjusted or serviced if necessary.

Placing the winch in the neutral position is going to be the best option anyhow. When you get the machine running, as a matter of practice, it should not be left running for extended periods with the main clutch lever in the disengaged position.
Good luck, we look forward to updates.

Thanks @D8Dude! Just the information I needed.

Scott

Headed back out to the D7 tomorrow for round 2. Wish me luck!

Good luck Scott,
I'm not able to join you today but I'm available by phone and have my D7 17A service manual and O.M.I. out for reference.
Craig

seiscat wrote:

Good luck Scott,
I'm not able to join you today but I'm available by phone and have my D7 17A service manual and O.M.I. out for reference.
Craig

Hey Craig - Thanks for advice and information today!  Super helpful!!!

Talk to you soon,

Scott

Today was a good freaking day!

On the road at 6:30 am. Picked up my buddy Will at 6:45 and we headed south.

Arrived at 8:40 am. Got unloaded and got to work.

Hit the bolts on the left side winch access cover with some 50/50 (mix of acetone and ATF). They came off with ease. Immediately inside was where the two cables entered the winch housing, one for brake, one for engage/disengage. Will managed to free up the brake lever with some 50/50 and elbow grease. We couldn't get the engage/disengage cable to free up, so we cut the cable at the winch with a death wheel and unthreaded the stub from the actuating lever inside the winch. Once that was done, we freed up the lever with equal applications of 50/50, brute force, and curse words. Once we had the engine turning over later in the day, we figured out which position was neutral and left it there so the winch wouldn't spin when the engine was turning over.

 

We worked on the clutch brake next.  As most of you know, this tractor has a wet clutch and there's a brake shoe that rides on the clutch to keep the clutch from turning when the clutch is disengaged; it's actuated by moving the main clutch lever all the way forward.  I checked the oil level in the clutch and it was good; oil was clean, too. Anyway, we figured out that the clutch brake was not actuating as it should have been when I tried to start the tractor last time, but I managed to get it in place to where it would actuate if the brake itself wasn't junk...more on this later.

   

Next we worked on the fuel system. I removed the cover to the rack and hosed everything down with 50/50. Then, with Will watching the rack, I spun the tractor over using the HF 24v jump pack.  Will reported that all the spring loaded plungers were moving up and down except for one, which was stuck in the up position. So I managed to gently persuade it to move back down to where it was in contact with the cam...and then spun the engine over again...and it stuck up again... We went back and forth for about 10 iterations of application of 50/50 and gentle persuasion and finally the plunger moved up and down its own.

 

At that point, we weren't trying to start the engine, and we weren't building oil pressure, but I did see a slight puff of smoke from the exhaust, so then I cracked open the fuel lines at the injectors about 1/2 turn. Spun it over some more and got a fair amount of fuel flowing from each fuel line, so I snugged them down and decided to see if she would crank.

Now that it had been spinning over for a while, the jump pack was getting a bit tired, so we went up to the owner's house and picked up the pair of 8D batteries.  Wired them up for 24V and gave her the beans. I didn't get much of anything with the decompression lever in the START position, but when I switched it to the RUN position, I started getting some smoke out the exhaust, so I gave her a little whiff of ether. Engine picked up and started to catch like it was going to start. This happened a few times and then she lit for good! It was running fairly rough at first, but that's because I didn't have the decompression lever all the way shut. Once I shut it, she cleaned up and idled nicely! Great oil pressure, too!

From there, I tried to get her to move by putting the forward/reverse lever in either forward or reverse, but no such luck; all it would do is grind and I wasn't about to force it. Even with the clutch lever in the disengage position and the clutch brake on, the clutch still seemed to be dragging. I could see the driveshaft spinning, too, so I suspect the clutch brake is smoked.

At that point, we were out of time and had to head north back to San Antonio.

On the way home I also spoke with the D7D owner (he's out of town for work) and he's tickled pink that the old girl is running again.

Plan is to head back out there again in the next week or so to drain the water out of the transmission (we didn't have the correct tool to remove the drain plug) and see if we can actually get it to move.  I plan to turn over the engine while it's in gear (forward and low) to see if the clutch will disengage.

FYI - I love to complain about south Texas summers, but days like today do NOT suck - sunny and highs in the low 70's. I was in short sleeves at the end of the day.

I'll work on editing the video over the next few days and will post to my YT channel.
 

Hi, bulletpruf.
GREAT stuff. Thanks for sharing. It might be an idea to pull the cover off the actual clutch and see what is happening in there when you move the clutch lever. In 'theory', if the clutch brake linkage is moving as it ought, then the linkage inside the clutch housing should had oughta be doing likewise. But 'theory' has been known to come unglued a few times in the past.

Just my 0.02.

Hi Scott,
Well done on getting it running! It's really satisfying to get a machine running that others have turned their back on. Some of these old Caterpillars can be pretty weather beaten and look a bit sad on the outside, but they're still smiling on the inside 😁. Great effort.

I wasn't sure whether to suggest the starting in gear method on this forum. If I could make some suggestions if you do go down that path;
- Since this machine is direct electric start, you might save some strain on the starter by starting it in neutral first, as you have done, warm it up a little so it turns over easier with the added load, then shut off and try turning over in gear.
- More drivetrain resistance will be obtained by selecting a higher gear, such as 5th, if the clutch is dragging badly, the machine may try to crawl with the lower ratio of 1st gear.

I look forward to watching the next instalment on YouTube.

Deas wrote:

Hi, bulletpruf.
GREAT stuff. Thanks for sharing. It might be an idea to pull the cover off the actual clutch and see what is happening in there when you move the clutch lever. In 'theory', if the clutch brake linkage is moving as it ought, then the linkage inside the clutch housing should had oughta be doing likewise. But 'theory' has been known to come unglued a few times in the past.

Just my 0.02.

Hi Deas Plant - That sounds like a good idea; I had considered removing the cover when we were out there, but we just ran out of time.

Thanks,

Scott

D8Dude wrote:

Hi Scott,
Well done on getting it running! It's really satisfying to get a machine running that others have turned their back on. Some of these old Caterpillars can be pretty weather beaten and look a bit sad on the outside, but they're still smiling on the inside 😁. Great effort.

I wasn't sure whether to suggest the starting in gear method on this forum. If I could make some suggestions if you do go down that path;
- Since this machine is direct electric start, you might save some strain on the starter by starting it in neutral first, as you have done, warm it up a little so it turns over easier with the added load, then shut off and try turning over in gear.
- More drivetrain resistance will be obtained by selecting a higher gear, such as 5th, if the clutch is dragging badly, the machine may try to crawl with the lower ratio of 1st gear.

I look forward to watching the next instalment on YouTube.

D8 Dude - You're correct, it was extremely satisfying to get the old girl running again, and I am sure she was smiling on the inside! 

Good point about starting in gear; it should be much easier if it's warmed up.

Thanks,

Scott