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Anyone build up and machine Rollers?

Anyone build up and machine Rollers?

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Ryan.E
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Hello folks. 

This is my first post here, I’ve been lurking for a while, and joined a month ago. 

Undercarriage parts always seems to be an issue,  hard to find, expensive if you can find it. Has anyone had any experience building up idler rollers and machining them to spec?  

Is this a good idea, or even possible?
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Sat, Mar 26, 2022 10:14 AM
neil
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I haven't but plenty of folks have. Most also don't machine after building up. So, yes, a good idea and is possible. There's a publication on here from Caterpillar on how to do it somewhere - probably in the Library I'd think
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Sat, Mar 26, 2022 10:33 AM
D4Jim
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Reply to neil:
I haven't but plenty of folks have. Most also don't machine after building up. So, yes, a good idea and is possible. There's a publication on here from Caterpillar on how to do it somewhere - probably in the Library I'd think
Here is a thread on rebuilding bottom rollers that should be helpful. Be sure to follow it on all three "pages"

Welcome aboard Ryan

https://www.acmoc.org/bb/discussion-d72/27883-build-up-of-bottom-rolls-by-welding?start=0

Cats Forever

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Sat, Mar 26, 2022 10:49 AM
Ryan.E
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Reply to D4Jim:
Here is a thread on rebuilding bottom rollers that should be helpful. Be sure to follow it on all three "pages"

Welcome aboard Ryan

https://www.acmoc.org/bb/discussion-d72/27883-build-up-of-bottom-rolls-by-welding?start=0
Lots of good information on those 3 pages!  Thanks for posting the link!  
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Sun, Mar 27, 2022 7:37 PM
Fat Dan
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Reply to Ryan.E:
Lots of good information on those 3 pages!  Thanks for posting the link!  
[quote="Ryan.E post=236812 userid=16481"]Lots of good information on those 3 pages!  Thanks for posting the link!  
 [/quote]
See ACMOC saves time and money.
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Mon, Mar 28, 2022 2:31 AM
trainzkid88
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Reply to Fat Dan:
[quote="Ryan.E post=236812 userid=16481"]Lots of good information on those 3 pages!  Thanks for posting the link!  
 [/quote]
See ACMOC saves time and money.
there is a lot of conservation info available. a fair bit of it is in the members library.

"i reject your reality and substitute my own" - adam savage. i suspect my final words maybe "well shit, that didnt work"

instead of perfection some times we just have to accept practicality

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Mon, Mar 28, 2022 4:13 PM
Jack
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Reply to trainzkid88:
there is a lot of conservation info available. a fair bit of it is in the members library.
I built up idlers for my D7 and didn't turn them. Just guide on a portion of the rim that doesn't show a lot of wear, like the center part, and stay pretty close to a constant depth by it. 7018 rod on a Cat steel produces an alloy that is pretty darned tough. Machining might be pretty slow and expensive, and we're not building a pocket watch here anyway. I also zigzagged a hard-surface bead over the running surface, and it has yet to wear down to the 7018 layer. This was a bunch of years ago; it has worked well.

When the rollers were shot on my D2, I priced 16 bearing sets and seal sets, some new shafts and assorted. and hadn't even gotten up to the actual cols of welding up 8 rollers when the cost already had met the cost of eight D3 rollers brand spankin' new! It cost a bit to put about 5/8 inch of steel under the frames and drill and tap for the D3 rollers, but they work well and will easily outlive me.

Just a few things to think about.
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Tue, Mar 29, 2022 12:13 PM
neil
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Reply to Jack:
I built up idlers for my D7 and didn't turn them. Just guide on a portion of the rim that doesn't show a lot of wear, like the center part, and stay pretty close to a constant depth by it. 7018 rod on a Cat steel produces an alloy that is pretty darned tough. Machining might be pretty slow and expensive, and we're not building a pocket watch here anyway. I also zigzagged a hard-surface bead over the running surface, and it has yet to wear down to the 7018 layer. This was a bunch of years ago; it has worked well.

When the rollers were shot on my D2, I priced 16 bearing sets and seal sets, some new shafts and assorted. and hadn't even gotten up to the actual cols of welding up 8 rollers when the cost already had met the cost of eight D3 rollers brand spankin' new! It cost a bit to put about 5/8 inch of steel under the frames and drill and tap for the D3 rollers, but they work well and will easily outlive me.

Just a few things to think about.
I'm doing the same as you Jack. I bought new D3 rollers (four double flange, four single flange, and two carrier) for about 100 each so 1k in brand new rollers. I picked up some 2x1.25 to go under the track frames, plus some C5x9 because the idler horns on the front are toast (actually the whole frame is toast but I can't find good replacements). New pair of sprocket rings I picked up along with a new pair of rails from Garlic Pete, and a good set of solid large idlers from d2gary
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Tue, Mar 29, 2022 10:23 PM
Jack
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Reply to neil:
I'm doing the same as you Jack. I bought new D3 rollers (four double flange, four single flange, and two carrier) for about 100 each so 1k in brand new rollers. I picked up some 2x1.25 to go under the track frames, plus some C5x9 because the idler horns on the front are toast (actually the whole frame is toast but I can't find good replacements). New pair of sprocket rings I picked up along with a new pair of rails from Garlic Pete, and a good set of solid large idlers from d2gary
I question the need for 1-1/4" under the track frames. Mine were done in the Halton Cat shop and they used 5/8" or maybe 3/4. If it's low, it sure didn't hurt the performance of the machine, and might have taken away some of the old rocking-chair effect of the short ag tracks. I took their word for it and it has been a good setup, but that call for thicker steel keeps coming up. Is it really needed? What is the measurement from roller surface on the rails to the top of the bearing? Is it actually 1-1/4" difference? Or more or less? I'm just curious, should have checked all of this while my D2 was in Halton's (Now it's Peterson's) shop.
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Wed, Mar 30, 2022 9:08 PM
neil
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Reply to Jack:
I question the need for 1-1/4" under the track frames. Mine were done in the Halton Cat shop and they used 5/8" or maybe 3/4. If it's low, it sure didn't hurt the performance of the machine, and might have taken away some of the old rocking-chair effect of the short ag tracks. I took their word for it and it has been a good setup, but that call for thicker steel keeps coming up. Is it really needed? What is the measurement from roller surface on the rails to the top of the bearing? Is it actually 1-1/4" difference? Or more or less? I'm just curious, should have checked all of this while my D2 was in Halton's (Now it's Peterson's) shop.
 [attachment=67256]Screen Shot 2022-03-30 at 6.35.07 PM.png[/attachment]What I'm doing is returning the running surface to the same relationship that the original D2 rollers had, hence the 1.25 thickness. I measured them and compared them to the D3 rollers, including the offset of the D3 center axis from the mounting surface) and that's what I came up with. Not to say I couldn't be wrong : ) . If yours is running ok, I wouldn't worry about it too much. All it "might" mean is that your idler and sprocket are closer to the ground. For the idler, we know that's not an issue because Cat provided low-position OEM parts for the idler. The sprocket I'm not sure about however I would say since there are numerous scenarios where the sprocket would take the full load of the rear end then it's ok (otherwise Cat would have prevented that happening with their design)

 
Attachment
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Thu, Mar 31, 2022 5:21 AM
Jack
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Reply to neil:
 [attachment=67256]Screen Shot 2022-03-30 at 6.35.07 PM.png[/attachment]What I'm doing is returning the running surface to the same relationship that the original D2 rollers had, hence the 1.25 thickness. I measured them and compared them to the D3 rollers, including the offset of the D3 center axis from the mounting surface) and that's what I came up with. Not to say I couldn't be wrong : ) . If yours is running ok, I wouldn't worry about it too much. All it "might" mean is that your idler and sprocket are closer to the ground. For the idler, we know that's not an issue because Cat provided low-position OEM parts for the idler. The sprocket I'm not sure about however I would say since there are numerous scenarios where the sprocket would take the full load of the rear end then it's ok (otherwise Cat would have prevented that happening with their design)

 
Attachment
Yup, that looks like pretty good math all right. My tractor holds a grade a lot easier than it used to. I had chalked it up to the fact that its got a new suspension spring at about the same time! I handles about like a five-roller frame now.

Thanks for settling that nagging question I'd pondered for several minutes over the last few years.
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Thu, Mar 31, 2022 7:16 AM
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