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Cat 951c engine, oil in exhaust manifold

Cat 951c engine, oil in exhaust manifold

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uisum
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Hello,
I have a problem with the 951c crawler loader motor.
Unfortunately enough oil comes out of cylinder 3 in the exhaust.
I disassembled the exhaust and o saw that it leaks a little from everyone, but especially from number 3.
This was sudden, I started to see cold engine smoke and obviously blue smoke.
When the engine warms up it no longer emits smoke and no longer leaks oil. This crawler loader had been standing still for years when I took it, and when I unloaded it it didn't emit any smoke. I parked it to make various repairs and after the tests I noticed this problem.
I have noticed that under the valve cover, the spring and valve are moving up and down by half a millimeter. Can this affect and let oil enter the cylinder? Only when cold enters oil, then how it heats are the losses irrelevant?
The engine is powerful, it doesn't lose revs, it starts immediately.
Every so often when cold cylinder 4 emits bursts, such as cough, injector?

What to check?
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Wed, Jul 7, 2021 4:48 PM
uisum
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I am attaching images.
I ran the engine on max for 1 hour.
has dirtied everything ..
oil comes out of all cylinders.
all this oil possible?
all piston rings damaged?
possible valve guide?
I am desperate...
thank you all.[attachment=63958]IMG_20210707_190719.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63958]IMG_20210707_190719.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=63952]IMG_20210707_190820.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63953]IMG_20210707_190758_1.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63954]IMG_20210707_190808.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63955]IMG_20210707_190731.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63956]IMG_20210707_190741.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63957]IMG_20210707_190752.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63958]IMG_20210707_190719.jpg[/attachment]
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 12:16 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to uisum:
I am attaching images.
I ran the engine on max for 1 hour.
has dirtied everything ..
oil comes out of all cylinders.
all this oil possible?
all piston rings damaged?
possible valve guide?
I am desperate...
thank you all.[attachment=63958]IMG_20210707_190719.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63958]IMG_20210707_190719.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=63952]IMG_20210707_190820.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63953]IMG_20210707_190758_1.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63954]IMG_20210707_190808.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63955]IMG_20210707_190731.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63956]IMG_20210707_190741.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63957]IMG_20210707_190752.jpg[/attachment][attachment=63958]IMG_20210707_190719.jpg[/attachment]
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I'd say she's do for an overhaul, had a D315 do that, needed rings and sleeves.
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 6:21 AM
trainzkid88
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Reply to Rome K/G:
I'd say she's do for an overhaul, had a D315 do that, needed rings and sleeves.
why it stops smoking is heat it is burning the oil. also the leak may slow as seals warm up and become more supple and oil rings expand etc.

the best fix is fully rebuild it half measures dont work too well and since you have to pull half of it apart to do a half job a full job isnt much more work it just costs more money.
side note if you do a full engine job you know the engine is right cuase you service the radiator too.

"i reject your reality and substitute my own" - adam savage. i suspect my final words maybe "well shit, that didnt work"

instead of perfection some times we just have to accept practicality

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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 8:25 AM
edb
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Reply to trainzkid88:
why it stops smoking is heat it is burning the oil. also the leak may slow as seals warm up and become more supple and oil rings expand etc.

the best fix is fully rebuild it half measures dont work too well and since you have to pull half of it apart to do a half job a full job isnt much more work it just costs more money.
side note if you do a full engine job you know the engine is right cuase you service the radiator too.
Hi Team,
check both the inner and outer air cleaner elements for restriction too as clogged air cleaners can cause oil to be drawn up past the rings.
Sometimes if an engine has run backwards (reverse rotation) the soot from the inlet (now exhaust) clogs the inner air cleaner element and is not seen without removing the element to inspect it..
I assume you mean by 1/2 of a millimeter valve movement that you mean the valve lash clearance and not the total opening dimension as valves only just opening can cause strange things like excess suction in the cylinder and oil to be drawn up past the rings.
Valve lash clearance for these engines should be :-
Inlet = 0.38mm (0.015")
Exhaust = 0.64mm (0.025")

Wrong weight/grade of oil or fuel diluted oil can cause such oil usage too. Fuel dilution can be caused by failed fuel transfer pump shaft seals. Seals can fail if the supply line and or the primary supply screens from the tank restricted. Some fuel tank taps have a screen in the fuel entry into the tap--can only be seen when the fuel is drained from the tank and the tap removed to inspect the screen--you parts book should show where the supply screens are as well as the Operation and Service Book
Poor quality fuel can also not fully burn and so come out the exhaust too ---I have encountered this with faulty fuel that will not burn fully from the supplier.

Just some things to check before spending big money.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 12:44 PM
uisum
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hello thanks for the information.
new air, diesel and fuel filters.
Valve clearance checked and in specification.
Half a millimeter is the play with the valves closed or slightly pressed by the rocker arm, moving them with your fingers forcefully they move sideways by about half a millimeter or a little more.
What comes out is fresh oil, because I replaced that too.
I don't understand why 10 days ago there was no smoke or anything else. Suddenly this problem.
can i somehow remove pistons and cylinders without removing the engine?
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 2:18 PM
trainzkid88
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Location: b.berg qld
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Reply to uisum:
hello thanks for the information.
new air, diesel and fuel filters.
Valve clearance checked and in specification.
Half a millimeter is the play with the valves closed or slightly pressed by the rocker arm, moving them with your fingers forcefully they move sideways by about half a millimeter or a little more.
What comes out is fresh oil, because I replaced that too.
I don't understand why 10 days ago there was no smoke or anything else. Suddenly this problem.
can i somehow remove pistons and cylinders without removing the engine?
some machines you can do a in frame rebuild and you drain the fluids unbolt the sump, upper radiator piping, injector lines, heads and undo the pistons from underneath removing them from above. BUT be sure to check for ridges at top of cyl before attempting removal or damage to piston rings and the ring land can happen. slipper type crank bearings can also be done this way provided the crank doesnt need machining.

by play your referring to sideways movement of the rocker contact pad? the rockers and rocker shafts may be worn the only way to tell is to micrometer the bores and the shafts in the working area. i dont know what the tolerances are.

like ed the retired mechanic has suggested check those other simple things first. case in point we had a vehicle that wouldn't start one day turned out the air filter was in upside down. took the road side call out mechanic 2 minutes to diagnose and fix. we had just serviced it. and didnt think to check that. you ass-u-me you have done everything correctly and that others have too.

the fuel pump could still be leaking into the sump even with fresh oil.

worn valve guides or stem seals will allow excess oil down past the valve stem its important for a minute amount of oil to lube the guides but excess can cuase smoke.
buildup of oil and soot over years and then running after sitting for years can suddenly see problems with seals etc appear as they have hardened and no longer seal.

"i reject your reality and substitute my own" - adam savage. i suspect my final words maybe "well shit, that didnt work"

instead of perfection some times we just have to accept practicality

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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 3:37 PM
uisum
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Reply to trainzkid88:
some machines you can do a in frame rebuild and you drain the fluids unbolt the sump, upper radiator piping, injector lines, heads and undo the pistons from underneath removing them from above. BUT be sure to check for ridges at top of cyl before attempting removal or damage to piston rings and the ring land can happen. slipper type crank bearings can also be done this way provided the crank doesnt need machining.

by play your referring to sideways movement of the rocker contact pad? the rockers and rocker shafts may be worn the only way to tell is to micrometer the bores and the shafts in the working area. i dont know what the tolerances are.

like ed the retired mechanic has suggested check those other simple things first. case in point we had a vehicle that wouldn't start one day turned out the air filter was in upside down. took the road side call out mechanic 2 minutes to diagnose and fix. we had just serviced it. and didnt think to check that. you ass-u-me you have done everything correctly and that others have too.

the fuel pump could still be leaking into the sump even with fresh oil.

worn valve guides or stem seals will allow excess oil down past the valve stem its important for a minute amount of oil to lube the guides but excess can cuase smoke.
buildup of oil and soot over years and then running after sitting for years can suddenly see problems with seals etc appear as they have hardened and no longer seal.
Hello
New symptoms more corrected.
The engine starts very well, holds idle and has excellent compression.
The problem of smoke and oil leaking from the exhaust occurs when the engine is hot and at medium and high rpm. It is not clear but after about 20 minutes when it is warmed up enough by some bursts, if I accelerate it still works well, but blue smoke and oil comes out.
In short, when cold as it seemed, it does not drool and does not smoke.
And when it is hot it behaves like this.
If they were the rings it would do it a lot more cold (I think).
Could it be the valve guides?
is it possible and from where does the ignition pump pass oil and from where?
What can I check without disassembling the whole crawler loader?
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 4:48 PM
Wombat
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Reply to uisum:
Hello
New symptoms more corrected.
The engine starts very well, holds idle and has excellent compression.
The problem of smoke and oil leaking from the exhaust occurs when the engine is hot and at medium and high rpm. It is not clear but after about 20 minutes when it is warmed up enough by some bursts, if I accelerate it still works well, but blue smoke and oil comes out.
In short, when cold as it seemed, it does not drool and does not smoke.
And when it is hot it behaves like this.
If they were the rings it would do it a lot more cold (I think).
Could it be the valve guides?
is it possible and from where does the ignition pump pass oil and from where?
What can I check without disassembling the whole crawler loader?
You mentioned there was no problem prior to changing the engine oil, just wonder if a problem with grade or type of oil?

Wombat
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 5:44 PM
uisum
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Reply to Wombat:
You mentioned there was no problem prior to changing the engine oil, just wonder if a problem with grade or type of oil?

Wombat
I noticed something else.
The ignition pump, the regulator is very hot, it is as hot to the touch as the oil filter. It's normal ?
I noticed this right away.
Is it possible that oil passes into the pump and is sprayed into the combustion chamber? [attachment=63963]IMG_20210703_182609.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=63963]IMG_20210703_182609.jpg[/attachment]

 
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 8:10 PM
uisum
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Reply to Wombat:
You mentioned there was no problem prior to changing the engine oil, just wonder if a problem with grade or type of oil?

Wombat
[quote="Wombat post=229644 userid=4746"]You mentioned there was no problem prior to changing the engine oil, just wonder if a problem with grade or type of oil?

Wombat[/quote]
he did it even before, then I changed the oil and filters hoping for the best
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Thu, Jul 8, 2021 8:17 PM
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